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Yes. All this talk about "accountability" of the student is dizzying. The student should have a choice and a voice in what they learn. "Making" them do everything they're told, and punishing them if they don't, is just as outrageous as it is counterproductive.
Part of the problem is that so many parties want to shield the students from the natural consequences of their actions. Failure shouldn't be punishment. It is what happens when mastery doesn't.
We've had an incredible narrowing of choices for students as schools have pushed for the college-readiness of all and societal pressures have skewed acceptable careers to white-collar professional jobs over blue-collar trades. Never mind that most professional jobs can be outsourced, while physical work is by its nature immediate in both time and space. The x-rays can be read by a cheap radiologist in Asia 24/7, while the plumbing or HVAC issues have to be dealt with here and now. I've been advising my students to consider outsourcing competition when choosing a college major. Look at the Microsoft employment news lately, for example.
Part of the problem is that so many parties want to shield the students from the natural consequences of their actions. Failure shouldn't be punishment. It is what happens when mastery doesn't.
We've had an incredible narrowing of choices for students as schools have pushed for the college-readiness of all and societal pressures have skewed acceptable careers to white-collar professional jobs over blue-collar trades. Never mind that most professional jobs can be outsourced, while physical work is by its nature immediate in both time and space. The x-rays can be read by a cheap radiologist in Asia 24/7, while the plumbing or HVAC issues have to be dealt with here and now. I've been advising my students to consider outsourcing competition when choosing a college major. Look at the Microsoft employment news lately, for example.
Failure is the natural consequence of the student's actions not a punishment. I have no idea why people think teachers who fail students are punishing the student when reality is the student chose to fail by not doing what was needed to master the material.
Failure should be a choice. If the student wants to fail, let them. They will either not care or learn from the consequences of their actions.
I agree on the college readiness craze. It's stupid. Not everyone is college material. Not everyone wants to go to college who is college material. The world needs plumbers and electricians and construction workers and garbage collectors too (we'd be waist deep in our own refuse without them). There are many career options that do not require a degree. We need to stop treating all students like they are going to college.
Part of the problem is that so many parties want to shield the students from the natural consequences of their actions. Failure shouldn't be punishment. It is what happens when mastery doesn't.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The "natural" consequence of a student not learning to read at a 9th grade level, is that they can't read at a 9th grade level. Punishing them further, which is what our system does -- is not a natural consequence. It is an artificial consequence, and it only serves to further hurt (rather than support) the student.
There are far too many (inaccurate) assumptions made when someone uses the argument that "giving students bad grades" is a natural, fair, and accurate consequence.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The "natural" consequence of a student not learning to read at a 9th grade level, is that they can't read at a 9th grade level. Punishing them further, which is what our system does -- is not a natural consequence. It is an artificial consequence, and it only serves to further hurt (rather than support) the student.
There are far too many (inaccurate) assumptions made when someone uses the argument that "giving students bad grades" is a natural, fair, and accurate consequence.
But grades are not a punishment. They are simply a measure of the student's performance. They serve the purpose of documenting what the student has demonstrated they can do. They are determined by the student not the teacher.
But grades are not a punishment. They are simply a measure of the student's performance. They serve the purpose of documenting what the student has demonstrated they can do. They are determined by the student not the teacher.
Grades certainly can be used as punishment. How many teachers do you know who use "points off for" this that or the other behavioral infraction in their classrooms? This is not accountability. It is punishment. It is specifically using grades as punishment.
They are simply a measure of the student's performance.
A LOT of (incorrect) assumptions there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
They serve the purpose of documenting what the student has demonstrated they can do.
As opposed to looking at student work, or listening to students communicate, or watching them in action?
If grades serve a purpose of "documentation," they are an extremely poor form of documentation.
In any case, grades are used as much more than documentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
They are determined by the student not the teacher.
Actually, they are literally determined by the teacher, lol.
Like most people, you seem to have an unexplored, unquestioning, resounding faith in the grading system.
And I've linked plenty of articles before that examine the problems of grading, which you and others choose not to read or attempt to understand.
Sure, grades could be used as nothing more than information for a student to know where and what they need to improve on, but it's a pretty inefficient method that comes with a host of negativity and problems.
Grades certainly can be used as punishment. How many teachers do you know who use "points off for" this that or the other behavioral infraction in their classrooms? This is not accountability. It is punishment. It is specifically using grades as punishment.
This is illegal in public schools. I would be disciplined if I lowered students' grades for conduct. If a student does not demonstrate mastery one level of a subject, the natural consequence is that s/he cannot proceed to the next level. That is not punishment, nor it is directly related to behavior.
In my class, students who have failing grades due to missing test grades may demonstrate mastery on the final exam and I will do everything possible to help them receive credit for the class. I don't punish students by failing them. I will however, refuse to help students who consistently give me a hard time. Here, the natural consequence is learning what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you. You don't get fed. Again, it is not punishment. Punishment would be having them suspended for the bad behavior. In that case, their grades for all their classes, not just mine, would be in jeopardy.
As opposed to looking at student work, or listening to students communicate, or watching them in action?
If grades serve a purpose of "documentation," they are an extremely poor form of documentation.
In any case, grades are used as much more than documentation.
Actually, they are literally determined by the teacher, lol.
Like most people, you seem to have an unexplored, unquestioning, resounding faith in the grading system.
And I've linked plenty of articles before that examine the problems of grading, which you and others choose not to read or attempt to understand.
Many of my test grades are performance assessments in which I do exactly these things. In band, for example, students must perform at a particular level to get first chair in their section. What do you propose would be the more appropriate outcome of looking, listening, and/or watching the students in action? Some students attain a high degree of mastery, others may do better than adequate, many perform at the most basic level of adequacy, and some performances are completely inadequate. That is how I base my grading.
Do you have another idea? I am always trying to hone my craft, and it took me a long time to get to a grading system that I believed was fair and sound from everyone's perspective. Then the district changed the grading system the week before the first term ended. Now there is almost no way to hold students accountable, as the new way assigns too little credit for major grades, too much for minor grades, and changes any term grade below a 50 to a 50.
I had a student with a B average first semester who had a schedule change to another section. She never reported even once for class after the schedule change, so her second semester average was a 50 instead of the 0 it should have been for abandoning the class. Her final grade for the year was only one point below passing. If she had had a higher B for the first semester, she would have passed, even though she literally quit coming before Christmas. Was her F a punishment or a natural consequence in your mind? Do you think she should have passed when she did not demonstrate mastery on half the coursework? I'm expecting that somehow her F will be changed to a D and she will turn up in the next level. That is also the new way. Just change the grades without telling the teacher.
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Failure is the natural consequence of the student's actions not a punishment. I have no idea why people think teachers who fail students are punishing the student when reality is the student chose to fail by not doing what was needed to master the material. 
