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Old 09-16-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,498 posts, read 60,718,893 times
Reputation: 61125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Administrators are not part of the union membership.

It depends, some states allow Administrators to belong to a union/association. MD, unbelievably since it's generally an anti-union state compared to some like PA, is one such.

Funny thing, when we teachers had our pay frozen and step increases suspended over the last few years the administrators still got their raises. They did have to take some furlough days one year, they had three and we had five.

 
Old 09-16-2014, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,894,993 times
Reputation: 35920
Thanks for clarifying that.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
753 posts, read 1,483,803 times
Reputation: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by October_Pumpkin View Post
The day I quit teaching was one of the happiest of my life. It's too bad, because I loved the kids, but hated their parents...
Oh I am so jealous of you!
 
Old 09-16-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,894,993 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by October_Pumpkin View Post
Because parents are such whiners, and it's easier to ban something than deal with parental whines. As a teacher, I've created dumb rules in my classroom because of obnoxious parents. I even stopped giving math homework because a parent complained she didn't have the crayon colors the assignment asked for. (If you have a 5 year old and don't own crayons, you're just plain pathetic! Why do these people have kids if they can't be bothered raising them?!!)

The day I quit teaching was one of the happiest of my life. It's too bad, because I loved the kids, but hated their parents...
I am glad my kids were out of school when I joined CD. There have been so many teachers who have expressed the same. We parents drag ourselves off to conferences in good faith, ride herd on our kids to do their homework, etc, only to find out that many of you guys HATE us.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 10:35 PM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,919,172 times
Reputation: 22689
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
Really you're comparing doctors to teachers? Seriously? When teachers have to have 10 years of education just to start out, then you can compare the two. Lives aren't in the hands of teachers. The wrong prescription, being off an 1/8 of an inch while in surgery and someone dies. How often does that happen with teachers?

Teachers have NOT had prestige in decades! What rock have you been under? Most teachers I know are sitting there counting the days until the school year is over and/or until their retirement day arrives.

If someone is looking for prestige, then the vast majority of jobs aren't for them. Some people think being a lawyer is prestigious. Others think they're nothing but ambulance chasers.

And many states teachers don't earn a "meager salary." I know people who start out making over $45K a year. You can live rather decently here on that.

When I graduated high school back in the 90's, our school librarian was making $86K a year. She didn't do a damn thing. She didn't even turn the lights on in the morning. The secretary did that! The students who volunteered in the library put ALL the books, magazines, microfiche, etc back in their homes. She literally sat her but in a chair all day long. The secretary checked students out as did the student volunteers. Very RARELY did lazy butt do it. So why on earth was she paid $86k a year from taxpayers? There were plenty of teachers in my high school whom were as pathetic and lazy.

And athletics is NOT the biggest problem in schools. When I played sports, I HAD to maintain a specific GPA otherwise I was off the team! When soccer season was over, I didn't do squat because I didn't need to and somehow I still earned A's and B's even without turning in term papers and other assignments. Remember those slacker teachers I mentioned? yeah they hated grading homework more than we hated doing it!
In defense of librarians: in most states, school librarians are required to have a professional degree from an accredited graduate library school - either the MLS or MALS or MIS. Few school or public librarians who are not public library directors are paid anything close to the $86,000 cited - $45-50,000 is more like it.

Much professional work goes on behind the scenes. Librarians order books and other materials from reviews in professional journals, after checking with the teachers and administrators about specific classroom needs. All items on the shelf are ordered following positive professional reviews or recommendations from teachers or others who are familiar with the material. Every school (and public) library has an extensive materials collection policy, and all purchases must adhere to this policy.

It takes considerable time to keep up with these reviews, along with the articles in these same journals. Once the materials arrive, they must be processed before they hit the shelf. Many school systems have centralized processing - cataloging, marking books, adding pockets and plastic jackets, etc. - but each individual school librarian keeps track of what's been ordered and must handle each item individually to make sure it is correctly cataloged and processed before it is checked off the order list and added to the collection. Similarly, collections must be weeded of damaged, worn out, or outdated materials. Some withdrawn items must be replaced, and records are kept of these orders as well as of materials which are new to the library.

While doing all this, the librarian must remain cognizant of the materials budget, and not over or underspend, as it's uncommon for funds left at the end of the year to be carried over.

Most school librarians create booklists on various relevant topics for their teachers and students. They stay in close touch with teachers to help teachers avoid assigning students to do the impossible (few libraries have 60+ copies of the same book, or material for 60+ kids doing the same esoteric assignment: "Compare life on an Israeli kibbutz to life on a Brazilian sugar plantation" was a favorite clueless assignment encountered by a librarian close to me), assist teachers in finding materials to supplement textbooks to enhance the curriculum, answer (realistic) reference questions from both teachers and students, and assist students in finding materials to help with assignments.

National Library Week, International Children's Book Day, and Children's Book Week are celebrated in libraries annually, with special displays, programs, perhaps visiting authors and illustrators, all of which must be planned by the librarian. Teachers must be informed of the approach of these special times, so they can arrange their own teaching schedules appropriately so their students can participate.

School librarians are required to participate in continuing education and professional development. They are strongly encouraged to belong to their state library association and school library association, and to attend conferences, and membership in the nation-wide American Library Association is also considered very positively. Coordinating with local public children's librarians is also encouraged, especially in planning summer reading activities sponsored by both the public library and in creating summer reading lists -often required reading- by the schools.

Effective school librarians recommend good books for recreational reading and book reports, give book talks to classes visiting the library, often tell stories in both the library and the classrooms, and may offer additional programming such as story-based dramatic groups, offer craft sessions based on literature, create displays related to topics being studied, create holiday displays and programs, and meet with students and administrators to discuss how to better serve the students and how to work together more productively.

They also read extensively and continually, keeping up with new books and other materials and revisiting older materials, so that they can continue to effectively assist their young student and teacher patrons. Most librarians take stacks of books home with them after work each day, to be read at home when more time may be available.

In addition, from time to time most librarians find themselves writing responses to (usually parental)efforts to censor the collection and explain and usually defend the reasons for the materials' presence. Such books must be read in their entirety by the librarian, and old reviews must be found. Any awards given to the books must be documented, and any statements by the authors about the books must be found and cited. The school principal must be notified of all such objections, and made aware of why the materials are in the collection.

Then courteous letters explaining the library's decision about such books (and how and why such books were originally chosen) must be sent to the objector, with an offer to meet with the objector to discuss it further and perhaps to recommend other books or materials on the same topic which might be more acceptable. Such letters and follow-up meetings must stress that the library does not recommend every book for every young reader, and that the library does attempt to offer guidance, but cannot be held responsible for every borrower's individual choices. The principal must be kept aware of each step of this process, and copies of any letters sent or received need to go to him or her.

Trusted school librarians often serve as unofficial guidance counselors, as young readers turn to them not only for reading recommendation but for input with personal problems. A wise librarian would listen sympathetically, then suggest a visit with the guidance counselor and perhaps recommend a helpful book on the topic - fiction can work just as well, if not better, than non-fiction in such situations.

Librarians do much more than check books in and out, shelve books, and turn on the lights. I would question the judgment and managerial skills of a school librarian who routinely did these things, given the presence of student or other assistants. It is far more appropriate to delegate these simple tasks to student assistants, to free the librarian for behind-the-scenes but essential professional activities.

No doubt there are some school librarians who slack off on the job - but they are the minority, and in good schools, they don't last long. Parents, teachers, students and administrators who expect better service see to that.

Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-16-2014 at 10:43 PM..
 
Old 09-17-2014, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
73 posts, read 187,258 times
Reputation: 100
I had to smile when I read this topic. I liVe in Marion County Fl. My wife is a retired educator from this county. OK, that said...

A few years ago we had a school board member who, after she began her second term, admitted that she didn't have a high school education. Then, Ms. Jan Cameron, even stated that she thought a GED was better than a high school diploma. This was after she finally got her own GED.

And, just this year, a woman without a degree ran a serious race for school superintendent.

A few years ago our county's superintendent's only advanced degree came from Disney. I'm serious. And our great Governor Bush, at that time, made him the state school's CZAR . LOL!
 
Old 09-17-2014, 05:53 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,628,571 times
Reputation: 1722
Back when my father was a principal, most teachers didn't go into administration until at least the midpoint in their career. Their own kids would be around high school age and they had years of teaching or guidance counseling (which then required teaching background) behind them. He was comfortable enough to call out the superintendent if he didn't like something (most superintendents then were homegrown too or at least stayed a while in a school system). And most of his fellow principals couldn't imagine doing an effective job as an administrator for more than 20 years without it taking a toll on their health.

My husband is a teacher and saw too many of his friends go to administrations while in their early 30s with infants and preschoolers at home. None of them can imagine doing the job for another 25 years. My husband doesn't want to be a principal even though he'd be very good.

That's kind of the problem, those that know what it takes to do a good job don't think it's worth the board meetings, nights away from the family, stress, etc. and now all the testing/RTTT garbage. But if ever does make the jump, it's because he doesn't want to work for the imbeciles that applied. LOL
 
Old 09-17-2014, 05:55 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,628,571 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
I don't agree. Public schools administrations do seem to attract the especially dim bulbs. It is, as a prior poster said, the direct result of unions that forbid firing, and career advancement opportunities within public school that are NOT based on merit or performance.

My kids left public school when the papers that the children brought home showed that the teachers didn't know how to spell. That was my last straw.
You are way off. Unions protect teachers from imbecile administrators. Administrators can fire bad teachers they just have to do the work to fire them...that usually involved confronting, documenting, speaking with bad teacher. Please don't let lazy principals off the hook by blaming bad teaching on tenure.
 
Old 09-17-2014, 06:01 AM
 
47 posts, read 67,761 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
Really you're comparing doctors to teachers? Seriously? When teachers have to have 10 years of education just to start out, then you can compare the two. Lives aren't in the hands of teachers. The wrong prescription, being off an 1/8 of an inch while in surgery and someone dies. How often does that happen with teachers?

Teachers have NOT had prestige in decades! What rock have you been under? Most teachers I know are sitting there counting the days until the school year is over and/or until their retirement day arrives.
Who taught the doctor? He was home-schooled from K - 12?

Since everyone was a student, everyone thinks they know how to be a teacher.

Doctors don't have respect any more in our society and culture, either. Insurance companies and hospital CEOs with MBAs push the doctors around. Patients who read an article on WebMD argue with the doctor.

No profession in our culture is really respected any more, except those that require very little education and make the most money.
 
Old 09-17-2014, 06:32 AM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,559,574 times
Reputation: 8104
Everyone seems to want to blame somebody or a particular group. Truth is, it's we the people that elect school boards, who in turn hire the administrators. If you think your school board is lacking, run for the board yourself or work to get people on it who you think will do a better job. When we hire a Principal or School superintendent in my school district there is always a search committee which is comprised of teachers, school board members, community members and current administrators. The school board will generally accept the recommendation of that group. The school board in my school district has people with Associates and phD's, people with school age kids and retired people, administrators in other districts and people that are self employed. All in all, it's a pretty good reflection of our community. And, btw, no imbeciles in administrative positions.
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