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I look at my kids common core math. It seems like there is a big push for advanced math, Algebra taught in third grade.
Your question seems more about whether a third grader can do algebra or pre-algebra. If a third grader hasn't mastered her multiplication facts or memorized addition and subtraction facts to 20, she's going to have trouble with algebra (or become very frustrated with it). And most third graders are just becoming proficient with their math facts, so I agree that it's too early for algebra.
Your question seems more about whether a third grader can do algebra or pre-algebra. If a third grader hasn't mastered her multiplication facts or memorized addition and subtraction facts to 20, she's going to have trouble with algebra (or become very frustrated with it). And most third graders are just becoming proficient with their math facts, so I agree that it's too early for algebra.
That's the question in my mind. I was really struggling hard with 2-column subtraction in 2nd grade; how do you wedge all those math skills into a kid that early so they have a shot at understanding the more advanced stuff?
And most third graders are just becoming proficient with their math facts, so I agree that it's too early for algebra.
What I'm seeing being taught is nothing like Algebra used to be taught. Like I said upthread, it's much simpler, and is just rolled into teaching kids things like: What does "+" mean? What does "=" mean? So when a kid is given the problem "2 + 3 = ?" they will also be given problems like "2 + ? = 5". They're never told "you're learning algebra" or anything. It's more about teaching kids what mathematical operators mean, and not about teaching "algebra" per se.
To the OP: Here's a math problem I frequently have to solve:
A medication comes as a powder in a vial of 1000 mg (1 Gm). You are supposed to mix it with 2.2 ml diluent, which gives you about 2.5 ml of liquid med. The patient needs 750 mg. How much do you give him/her?
Now some young nurses who've never worked outside the hospital setting would probably say "the pharmacist will figure it out". But you (generic) are working in an office and there is no pharmacist. You have to figure it out.
Sure, engineers and scientists use computers. But you know what they say about computers: "garbage in, garbage out". You have to know what numbers to put in and what to tell the computer to do.
I respect that this is something that you need to do frequently, and I'm sure you do it well, but with all due respect, it seems out-of-context when referring to the OP; I can't see a third grader having to do what you do.
No, Algebra in 8th grade is not the norm across the US.
Algebra is typically your 9th grade Math
Algebra in 8th grade here (Texas) is considered accelerated Math.
The goal is that Algebra in 8th grade is the norm in all schools across the US.
Algebra: Not 'If' but 'When'
As recently as 20 years ago, most students took algebra in the ninth grade. Students who showed exceptional talent in mathematics might be offered the opportunity to take it in the eighth grade. In many schools today, algebra in the eighth grade is the norm, and students identified by some predetermined standard can complete the course in seventh grade. Algebra courses are even stratified as “honors†algebra and “regular†algebra at both of these grade levels. The variation in course names leads one to wonder about the level of rigor.
Attended HS (NYC) back in the 1980's and yes formal Algebra was given in the ninth grade for both public and private high schools. Some really bright students at certain schools could take it in eight grade but these were normally "advanced track"/AP kids.
Some high schools allowed students to break algebra down to three semesters "A, B, C" as well.
There are at least two subjects in math for which mastery of has great impacts upon future educational goals and or career paths not to mention life in general.
The first is fractions and the other is algebra. Without a firm grasp of concepts and ability to perform fundamental basics of each higher levels of math knowledge and thus certain career/professions will be difficult if not impossible.
With algebra a large part of "why" one needs has to do with the ability to comprehend and solve word problems. That is to know what is being asked of one and understanding the use of "order of operations" to arrive at a correct answer.
Solving for "X" is used in many professions/careers from nursing (medical dosage calculations), to Wall Street.
Being all this as it may have never heard of a third grader being exposed to algebra. They haven't had the basic mastery of fractions and decimals (multiplying, dividing, etc...) without which trying to understand much less master the subject will be nearly impossible.
Can see moving fractions and decimals from fourth grade down to third for those able to handle it, but otherwise this doesn't make sense.
I can't see where in their life, my kids will ever use such math. Anyone care to tell me about your job that requires so much math?
I figure maybe a scientist or an engineer may need it.
I guess he wouldn't use a computer to do his calculations?
I figure the average person should be able to count change and balance a check book.
I also notice there isn't much of a push for reading, which gets used about every day. My kids have PE once a week, I had it every day.
Algebra in the 3rd grade is too early, even for advanced students. However, geometry is perfectly within reach for 3rd and 4th graders, pre-alegbra for 4th and 5th, and algebra for 5th and 6th.
As far as use. Math and Algebra are used everywhere. Fewer and fewer skilled jobs can be done well without algebra.
A computer can do calculations. But to make sure the problem is well structured, one needs a decent understanding of algebra.
The goal is a school system should not be to each to the lowest levels, but to prepare kids for the world they are about to enter. If a school's math program is pitched at balancing checkbooks, most of those kids would be cast off by the world economic system.
PE: one would hope the kids would at least get it every other day.
I respect that this is something that you need to do frequently, and I'm sure you do it well, but with all due respect, it seems out-of-context when referring to the OP; I can't see a third grader having to do what you do.
I was responding to this in the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapie9969
I look at my kids common core math. It seems like there is a big push for advanced math, Algebra taught in third grade. I can't see where in their life, my kids will ever use such math.Anyone care to tell me about your job that requires so much math?
I figure maybe a scientist or an engineer may need it.
I guess he wouldn't use a computer to do his calculations?
I figure the average person should be able to count change and balance a check book.
I also notice there isn't much of a push for reading, which gets used about every day. My kids have PE once a week, I had it every day.
I told about my job. K?
And I have a feeling 3rd grade "algebra" is significantly different than Algebra I, whether a student takes it in 7th, 8th, or 9th grades.
It's not Algebra per say..it's algebraic concepts.
Big difference.
But if they don't know their basic arithmetic (add, subtract, multiply and divide) those concepts will hard to grasp.
Third grade math is still very concrete with lots of manipulatives. Algebraic concepts are abstract and involve symbols with manipulation using your knowledge of the order of operations.
By 6th grade they should be able to construct 1 variable equations from word problems and then solve for the variable.
I'm not a numbers person AT ALL. I am able to figure things out quickly in ways that normal people probably wouldn't get right away. Stupid stuff, too. Hours of the day confound me when I'm figuring out my leave slip. Looks like I've dealt with the same 24 hours for the past 34 years, I'd be a little closer to speaking terms with them. No. I have to draw the dang face of a clock and count the little marks. It's pathetic! But I did learn the basics of algebra. I much preferred Geometry. That was awesome. I CLEP'd the first year College Math. So I can do it. But I have to be honest. Reading through this thread gave me a touch of anxiety. All of you are WAY over my head. My guy is a numbers man so we make a great team.
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My guy is a numbers man so we make a great team.
