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Old 11-07-2015, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,358,121 times
Reputation: 50373

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It's impressive for fourth grade level. My issue with it is that I don't see the practical value in how the question is phrased. Why would I ever need to do such a thing? Yeah, it's neat to know how to do it...but concentrate on either putting it in a form that is realistic or don't ask it at all. Math problems that are contrived are worthlessly abstract. If I want abstract I'll take an advanced math class but not in 4th grade.
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Old 11-07-2015, 07:13 PM
 
17,568 posts, read 15,237,377 times
Reputation: 22885
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I realize you are kind of making a funny, but there is a real point here.
Oh, I'm more than kind of.. But.. You're right as well that it's a valid funny point.

When I first read the question.. the first thing that went through my mind was that it couldn't be answered because we had no way of knowing the price of the desk AND the chair.. After re-reading it, I realized they weren't looking for the individual prices.. Which, as someone else mentioned, is a completely non-real world scenario.

But, I saw a funny one on FB today..

Quote:
Bob has 36 candy bars. He eats 29. What does he have now?
Answer: Diabetes. Bob has diabetes.

Another correct answer due to a poorly worded question.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,027 posts, read 4,890,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post



Answer: Diabetes. Bob has diabetes.

Another correct answer due to a poorly worded question.
Wait a minute. There's not enough information to answer that question. We don't know if the candy bars were regular or large sized, we don't know over how many days or months he ate them, and we don't know if the HIPAA laws were broken in knowing that Bob has diabetes.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,105 posts, read 41,238,832 times
Reputation: 45124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post

Bob has 36 candy bars. He eats 29. What does he have now?

Answer: Diabetes. Bob has diabetes.

Another correct answer due to a poorly worded question.
Answer: A bellyache.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:24 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,653,026 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Oh, I'm more than kind of.. But.. You're right as well that it's a valid funny point.

When I first read the question.. the first thing that went through my mind was that it couldn't be answered because we had no way of knowing the price of the desk AND the chair.. After re-reading it, I realized they weren't looking for the individual prices.. Which, as someone else mentioned, is a completely non-real world scenario.
If the wording is bad, how would you improve it? How would you rephrase the question and make it ironclad?
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:02 AM
 
3,205 posts, read 2,621,644 times
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We must assume that the audience for such a question has been primed with the knowledge of how to deal will such questions non-algebraically.

Not hard to do when you have just been taught the method of solving a problem.
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,358,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill83 View Post
If the wording is bad, how would you improve it? How would you rephrase the question and make it ironclad?
I would NOT reword it! The entire premise of the question is silly and no one would ask that or ever need to know it.

If you're trying to teach a concept or method, do it in a compelling way that shows why it is important or when I could use it in the future. ...contrived...unrealistic....not useful. Fourth grade math needs to teach what is useful. High school math and college math - goes beyond that.
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:52 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,037,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill83 View Post
If the wording is bad, how would you improve it? How would you rephrase the question and make it ironclad?
I wouldn't ask such a question in the first place. It's not representative of a real world situation, but is an artificially worded problem to force a student toward a desired path.

If you're trying to teach how to solve a math problem, then use an equation (not a "number sentence"). If on the other hand you're trying to teach how to convert word problems to equation form, then use a problem that is realistic.
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:56 AM
 
3,205 posts, read 2,621,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good at Math View Post
I posted a math example on the other thread. Don't want to derail the original discussion, so I post the answer here.


Step 1: 108 × 3 = 324 This should not be hard at all.

Step 2: 399 - 324 = 75 It is easy since there is no borrowing or regrouping.

Step 3: 75 + 75 = 150 That is it.

Let's put it in a "number sentence". (Excuse me for using Common Core language)

2(399-3×108)=150
I know this may sound funny, but you used algebra at every step.

Step 1: Find X: 108 x 3 = X

Step 2: Find X: 399 - 324 = X

Step 3: Find X: 75 + 75 = X

The fact that 'X' was already isolated on one side of the equation is irrelevant.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:08 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 2,653,026 times
Reputation: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugrats2001 View Post
I know this may sound funny, but you used algebra at every step.

Step 1: Find X: 108 x 3 = X

Step 2: Find X: 399 - 324 = X

Step 3: Find X: 75 + 75 = X

The fact that 'X' was already isolated on one side of the equation is irrelevant.
Lol. You substituted every answer with a "X". By your own logic,

1 + 1 = X, 1 + 2 = X, 2 + 2 = X , ...... Find X.

Every 1st grader and up is doing algebra every day. US students math performance should be the #1 in our galaxy. Reality check, we are not even in top 10 on Earth.

Let me be blunt, you need to learn more math.
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