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Whenever an American or European wins an Olympic gold medal, we cheer them as heroes. When a Chinese does, the first reflex seems to be that they must have been doping; or if that’s taking it too far, that it must have been the result of inhumane training. - See more at: Education & Skills Today: Are the Chinese cheating in PISA or are we cheating ourselves? -- Andreas Schleicher
Yeah they put them into language classes for everything except for sports and art until they have mastered Finnish/Swedish well enough to join the mainstream class.
Imagine the had-wringing from a certain political wing here in America if we tried doing that with immigrants.
Whenever an American or European wins an Olympic gold medal, we cheer them as heroes. When a Chinese does, the first reflex seems to be that they must have been doping; or if that’s taking it too far, that it must have been the result of inhumane training. - See more at: Education & Skills Today: Are the Chinese cheating in PISA or are we cheating ourselves? -- Andreas Schleicher
Always wondered why those athletes cheated. Was the thought of losing and its possible consequences most eminent in their minds as they competed for honors? Originally I chalked it up to great pressure from simply feeling the entire weight of a country and its way of life sitting on their shoulders. The thought there was they were representing something good, they just cannot lose.
But more and more I think it was inherent character flaws which exposed their weaknesses in competition. And the other thing is they simply thought they could get away with it. Don't know how it is today. Curious now if Olympic oversight is like FIFA and international football. Wonder if we'll wake up and find out there's corruption all over the place.
Always wondered why those athletes cheated. Was the thought of losing and its possible consequences most eminent in their minds as they competed for honors? Originally I chalked it up to great pressure from simply feeling the entire weight of a country and its way of life sitting on their shoulders. The thought there was they were representing something good, they just cannot lose.
But more and more I think it was inherent character flaws which exposed their weaknesses in competition. And the other thing is they simply thought they could get away with it. Don't know how it is today. Curious now if Olympic oversight is like FIFA and international football. Wonder if we'll wake up and find out there's corruption all over the place.
Probably. And I'll point out athletes from western countries, e.g. W. Europe, the US, Canada, have also cheated, but it doesn't seem quite such an institutional thing.
You show me an Asian country scoring through the stratosphere on these tests and I'll show you an educational system that is only testing a narrow slice of its population.
Actually it looks like it's the opposite. On the PISA, they took the top 10% of American students and compared to the AVERAGE of the Asian students, and Asian students still came out ahead by a sizable margin.
"Conventional wisdom is that the US doesn’t make it on the list of the top 25 countries in math (or top 15 in reading) because America has higher poverty and racial diversity than other countries do, which drags down the national average. Wrong. The latest 2012 PISA test results, released Dec. 3, 2013, show that the U.S. lags among 65 countries (or sub country entities) even after adjusting for poverty. Students at the 90th percentile in the United States — the very top — are below the average student in Shanghai. " Top US students fare poorly in international PISA test scores, Shanghai tops the world, Finland slips | Education By The Numbers
"Even the top-performing U.S. state — Massachusetts — was outperformed by Shanghai. In math, 19 percent of Massachusetts students who took the exam placed in the top two levels of proficiency, while 55 percent of students in Shanghai reached those tiers. That difference is equivalent to more than two additional years of formal schooling, the OECD said. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...54b_story.html
"Some observers say the United States does not perform well in international competitions because it is a large, diverse country, with the highest child poverty rate among industrialized countries. But countries like Vietnam, where 79 percent of students are economically disadvantaged, outscored U.S. students in math." https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...54b_story.html
"Lacking good information, it has been easy even for sophisticated Americans to be seduced by apologists who would have the public believe the problems are simply those of poor kids in central city schools. Our results point in quite the opposite direction. Compared to their counterparts abroad, U.S. students from advantaged homes lag severely behind." U.S. Students from Educated Families Lag in International Tests : Education Next
Actually it looks like it's the opposite. On the PISA, they took the top 10% of American students and compared to the AVERAGE of the Asian students, and Asian students still came out ahead by a sizable margin.
"Conventional wisdom is that the US doesn’t make it on the list of the top 25 countries in math (or top 15 in reading) because America has higher poverty and racial diversity than other countries do, which drags down the national average. Wrong. The latest 2012 PISA test results, released Dec. 3, 2013, show that the U.S. lags among 65 countries (or sub country entities) even after adjusting for poverty. Students at the 90th percentile in the United States — the very top — are below the average student in Shanghai. " Top US students fare poorly in international PISA test scores, Shanghai tops the world, Finland slips | Education By The Numbers
"Even the top-performing U.S. state — Massachusetts — was outperformed by Shanghai. In math, 19 percent of Massachusetts students who took the exam placed in the top two levels of proficiency, while 55 percent of students in Shanghai reached those tiers. That difference is equivalent to more than two additional years of formal schooling, the OECD said. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...54b_story.html
"Some observers say the United States does not perform well in international competitions because it is a large, diverse country, with the highest child poverty rate among industrialized countries. But countries like Vietnam, where 79 percent of students are economically disadvantaged, outscored U.S. students in math." https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...54b_story.html
"Lacking good information, it has been easy even for sophisticated Americans to be seduced by apologists who would have the public believe the problems are simply those of poor kids in central city schools. Our results point in quite the opposite direction. Compared to their counterparts abroad, U.S. students from advantaged homes lag severely behind." U.S. Students from Educated Families Lag in International Tests : Education Next
But we don't know what group of Shanghai students took the test! It's easy to game this system.
Education Next is a publication of the Hoover Insitution, a pretty conservative organization. You can read all the "Bash US Public Education" there is, and get a pretty bleak picture. Maybe you should broaden your perspective a bit.
What I don't understand is how Shanghai and Hong Kong, which are bother freakin' cities (not countries), and the economic powerhouse regions of China no less, keep showing up on these lists as if this is an apples to apples comparison. That's part of it, the other part is that there is significant evidence indicating that these and other Asian "countries" have policies in place that limit who is being tested. Combined with the same relative homogeneity that Finland benefits from, and you have a situation that allows for apparent excellence.
That's not to say that we can't learn some things from them, or that their success is a complete mirage, but on many levels the assumed gap between our system and theirs isn't that wide.
What I don't understand is how Shanghai and Hong Kong, which are bother freakin' cities (not countries), and the economic powerhouse regions of China no less, keep showing up on these lists as if this is an apples to apples comparison. That's part of it, the other part is that there is significant evidence indicating that these and other Asian "countries" have policies in place that limit who is being tested. Combined with the same relative homogeneity that Finland benefits from, and you have a situation that allows for apparent excellence.
That's not to say that we can't learn some things from them, or that their success is a complete mirage, but on many levels the assumed gap between our system and theirs isn't that wide.
I've seen articles that pick out Mass. and Ct. because their PISA scores are higher than other states.
And almost all countries track students..academic or vocational. Only the academic track students are picked for PISA.
We don't track and all of our students are on the academic track which means all of our students are eligible to be picked for PISA.
I don't know why people angst over it. This is the path the US chose.
What I don't understand is how Shanghai and Hong Kong, which are bother freakin' cities (not countries), and the economic powerhouse regions of China no less, keep showing up on these lists as if this is an apples to apples comparison. That's part of it, the other part is that there is significant evidence indicating that these and other Asian "countries" have policies in place that limit who is being tested. Combined with the same relative homogeneity that Finland benefits from, and you have a situation that allows for apparent excellence.
That's not to say that we can't learn some things from them, or that their success is a complete mirage, but on many levels the assumed gap between our system and theirs isn't that wide.
Hong Kong is a special administrative region with its own government and school system. People from mainland China need a visa just to visit. But I'm sure you were aware of that with your vast knowledge of Asian school systems.
Let's see your significant evidence that there is selective testing in Hong Kong.
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