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Basically, students today have been given a "Pass" grade even when they are actually failing. This means the next teacher has to try to in addition to teach them basic reading and math skills (that they missed last time from failing), the next grade's curriculum. This is with all the knowledge they lost from the last year too from summer break. Now imagine this happens over and over. The kid is actually being done a disservice, but walks away with the attitude "I don't have to try, they'll just pass me anyway."
Enter college. The school emphasizes the amount of facilities, not the quality of their education. The kid goes there expecting to party, and this is exactly what they do most of the time. Or maybe they study online at a for-profit online school. Which most professionals look down on, despite the fact they are less likely to party there than many of the campus schools today. Making the degree worthless.
Now, the work world. Most students have basically wasted their parent's money and their dreams. Their parents think they want a high-paying job, but actually a great deal of students want a part or full-time job working with people their age, and would be just as well off working at a Tastee Freez. The college experience should have taught them how to hold a normal job. The high school/elementary should have taught them basic schools, like reading/writing/math/computers/science/etc. Neither one did its job, and they are useless mooches on society that can't do simple jobs. Employers notice this, and become extremely picky about hiring. Or they skip the local hires entirely, and outsource jobs. Cheaper workers, don't complain, and they know how to work.
I graduated from a college with okay grades and had an okay education. Certainly didn't party the whole time. But even I was woefully unprepared after college. They didn't teach me how to handle apartments and bills, much less the student loan, and nobody would hire. Thankfully, my parents helped with student loan, or I would really be screwed. But it was quite a while before I was getting hired. Currently I still live at home because even the cheapest apartments are too damned expensive.
Here's the thing. The money you pay to workers doesn't grow on trees. The people you pay wire money back to their homeland. Suppose the US has $50b to give to workers. US workers take the money, spend it locally, and it gets spent again (unless it gets spent in Walmart, then it gets hoarded). Foreign workers, on the other hand, send it to their aunt in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, China, or wherever. The US rather than having $50b now has $20b. They either have less money to pay now, meaning despite these workers demanding less salary, they are draining the economy. US prints more money to hide this, resulting in inflation. US workers are poorly educated and trained, so the high minimum wage everyone insists is a good thing, is actually a disincentive to hire. They can't replace the outsourced workers. And it's too expensive to hire, inflation is rampant and because of this, costs of food, gas, and other things are out of control.
Moderator cut - please post links instead of copyrighted graphic - graphic removed
(1) Fix our education system. American citizens actually need to be able to do the jobs out there, or college isn't working. If after college, Americans can't do jobs, they have to get people who can.
(2) Send all but naturalized immigrants home. If they still have ties to their homeland, and are working under the table, we have no loyalty with them, and they will take jobs of people who could have been trained. Rather than a local economy, we have bought labor for not much in return.
(3) Allow college refunds. If after college a student is not able to get and retain a job, their degree by definition, is worthless. Any other good or service allows refunds if the quality is inferior. At least they can have that money back to try to start their own business.
Look at that chart above. People are making less money after inflation is considered. But housing and both public and private college has gone up threefold. We need to cheapen college, and greatly improve the curriculum.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 05-19-2016 at 05:00 PM..
College refunds.... LOL. Do you believe colleges assign majors to students? Nope. Students choose. They also are solely responsible for the grades they make and the work experience/internships they do or in may cases do not participate in. And not to forget, but it's the student who decides to apply to the school, not the other way around. Give them the money to start their own business? A college graduate who can't even compete for jobs isn't remotely capable of running their own business. If kids want a guarantee, they should buy a toaster.
Enter college. The school emphasizes the amount of facilities, not the quality of their education. The kid goes there expecting to party, and this is exactly what they do most of the time. Or maybe they study online at a for-profit online school. Which most professionals look down on, despite the fact they are less likely to party there than many of the campus schools today. Making the degree worthless.
Well, that is all on the student.
"The kid" should NOT be going there expecting to party. There are far less expensive options if that is their goal!
And the student should not choose a for-profit school, if the degree is as worthless as you claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
But even I was woefully unprepared after college. They didn't teach me how to handle apartments and bills, much less the student loan
That is the responsibility of your parents, not a college!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
(3) Allow college refunds. If after college a student is not able to get and retain a job, their degree by definition, is worthless.
Nope.
What is to stop anyone from getting a degree than just slacking off for a refund?
Getting you a job and you retaining that job is not the responsibility of a college either. Their purpose is to educate you.
Well, that is all on the student.
"The kid" should NOT be going there expecting to party. There are far less expensive options if that is their goal!
And the student should not choose a for-profit school, if the degree is as worthless as you claim.
That is the responsibility of your parents, not a college!
Nope.
What is to stop anyone from getting a degree than just slacking off for a refund?
Getting you a job and you retaining that job is not the responsibility of a college either. Their purpose is to educate you.
Yep. The trend for a long time in K-12 is making teachers responsible for EVERYTHING and the OP now wants colleges to also be responsible? Sure, there are crappy parents who fail to teach their kids valuable things like how to pay a bill, but in my mind that means we need to figure out how to encourage parents to do better not dump the burden on educational institutions. How much time that used to be spent on instruction is now wasted on other crap? And last I checked, 18 year olds are considered adults. It's not the place of colleges finish raising them if their parents did a poor job.
Yeah, the OP is complaining about costs, but wants a three credit course in bill paying?
Makes zero sense.
Not much about the original post makes sense. Most students want to work at Tastee Freez? They just want a job where they can hang out with their peers?
I need to call my kids and tell them they're doing it all wrong. Clearly their masters degrees and high paying jobs aren't at all the point of higher education. Sadly, we have no Tastee Freez in our area so they will have to settle for jobs at DQ.
(1) Fix our education system. American citizens actually need to be able to do the jobs out there, or college isn't working. If after college, Americans can't do jobs, they have to get people who can.
(2) Send all but naturalized immigrants home. If they still have ties to their homeland, and are working under the table, we have no loyalty with them, and they will take jobs of people who could have been trained. Rather than a local economy, we have bought labor for not much in return.
(3) Allow college refunds. If after college a student is not able to get and retain a job, their degree by definition, is worthless. Any other good or service allows refunds if the quality is inferior. At least they can have that money back to try to start their own business.
.......
I agree with a lot of what you say. Education is the key to success for future jobs but we are failing. Surveys show our high school seniors know less than students in almost any other major country including almost every European country. College has also become a joke. Colleges all but shut down on Thursday afternoon so the party time can last from Thursday night through the weekend. Everyone expects a "B" for showing up and an "A" for doing even minimal work. Grades have become so inflated they are all but worthless.
I agree the situation is pathetic, but I disagree about where the blame belongs. You blame the "education system" including blaming colleges for worthless degrees. I place the blame almost entirely on the students and parents. It starts with trophies for playing sports instead of the idea of achievement. Parents are revolting against standardized testing, largely because they do not want to know their kids are ignorant.
Since I blame the students for their lack of dedication, work and achievement, I do not look for other scapegoats. Ignorant Americans make it easy for foreign workers to come here and do well. We need to solve that problem by achievement not barring those with needed skills from working.
First of all, education is only one component of the complex issue of cyclical recessions. There were recessions in the 70's, there were recessions before the 70s, there will continue to be recessions. The only difference this time perhaps is our failure to fully rebound. I blame that on the fiscal policies of the current administration, but that's another topic.
Second of all, inflation is not "rampant". Inflation is relatively low and has been for quite awhile. That's the impact of a recession.
But more importantly, the first part of your thread totally contradicts your last part:
You start by saying the students nowadays are given a free pass, based on the policies of public schools and, I guess, the millineum entitlement generation.
Then in the end, while I agree in principle with #1 and #2 (of course, everyone wants to improve education, but that's just a glib statement, you won't have one person saying "let's make education worse"), in #3 you end by saying that colleges should give a refund if the graduate does not get a degree . Besides being almost impossible to implement, or afford (thus leading to greater recession and higher educational costs). How does that solve your original issue? That simply compounds it. You are once again giving students a free pass.
Hey I have a GREAT idea. How about we get the government out of the student loan business once and for all. No more cheap readily available money
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