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Kat, I think it's become somewhat of an urban legend among the "anti-education crowd". It assuages their inferiority complex, and normalizes under achievement.
You ask some of these applicants the most basic interview question: " What’s the most difficult decision you’ve made and how did you come to that decision?", and then it happens. Their eyes gloss over, and out comes some vague statement that has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with the query.
Between two excellent jobs I had, I applied and interviewed for a position as a technology transfer specialist. During the interview it became apparent to me that it was a boring paper-pushing job that I wouldn't be happy in or challenged with.
Part of the interview consisted of questions like that - "that has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with the" job, to quote you. I can think quickly on my feet, but c'mon. If the applicant has the correct background to do the job, those questions are pointless and don't give you any information except how well the person can BS on a moment's notice or how much they read about how to answer those questions during an interview. I knew I didn't want the job and almost just said so and walked out, and probably should have instead of wasting everyone's time answering pointless questions like those. I was offered the job but declined due to the potential boredom factor.
The next job I interviewed for was in my field of science and the interview was to the point. "We see you have a degree in (blank) and have worked at (X, Y and Z). This is what we need done in this position. How does your background help for this particular job?" I told them I knew how to data mine in a way no one else had the background or experience to do in their organization, and I was practically hired on the spot. I don't think "What’s the most difficult decision you’ve made and how did you come to that decision?" would have helped them one iota in deciding if I could do that specialized job or not.
This was started not because of education level but because of the "Soy-lent Green effect". Meaning they want to keep people from the big money and big positions. So they raise the standards. Big businesses ( like non for profits ) will force people to get bachelors. It is a way to screw people over in the long run.
Like what my father did back then makes $80,000 point blank. Even at work he had to take extra classes ( liability ) . He only has his associates. Now to get his money I have to get a bachelors. Yet he argues he would be making more money ( because they on purposely want a person with a bachelors. However he makes more then $40 per hour.
College is a business and they just want that for qualification. It is like having a drivers license. It is just for show and does not really mean if you can or can not do the job at all. So the company could say "Our professionals" blah blah have this and that.
You have tons of great people doing nothing with there lives at all. IDK why? They just do not have any ability to gain income with their skills. They have great skills. Skills being abused by people who do not even do a great job.
What is your profession? What is your level of education?
Quick question: what are these "minimal jobs" that now require a BA?
My cousin works at a ticket company. She had to have a bachelor's to apply there and she said what she does has nothing to do with her degree at all, that any high school grad could do her job.
Nope, wasn't trying to prove the original premise. Was responding to Katarina's statement where she said no one had ever shown what I had already answered in previous threads and did once again.
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
You just keep prevaricating about this, and accusing me of taking it out of context, etc, etc. Way to go. You'll get the thread closed for sure.
...
So now you are accusing me of lying? The fact that you don't like the answer doesn't change it.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
High schools do not train people for jobs. Some high schools have voluntary vocational tracks that prepare people for careers as hairstylists, mechanics, dental assistants and other careers. NYS, for example, has the BOCES program. Students in their last two years of high school spend half of the day studying academic subjects, and the other half learning a trade.
The other students are all preparing for college.
I thoroughly agree that is how it should be. Too many schools however have dropped the vocational tracks. Instead they try to funnel everyone down a general college prep track. And one of the big problems of dropping vocational ed is there are many skills college bound students need that are taught in vocational ed that aren't taught elsewhere in many schools. The net result is we are underserving the college bound and the vocational bound.
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Originally Posted by SoulJourn
Forget High School diplomas, that's just expected. To get anywhere in life, you need at least a BA/S. Most managerial trainee positions require a BA.
That horse left the barn a long time ago.
People were once able to obtain jobs in manufacturing, particularly the automobile manufacturing sector. Those jobs paid fairly good wages and had good benefits.
Many trade schools teach subjects that do not pay well enough to support a family. People who I know who did attend trade school during high school, later went on to college to further their education. Case in point - a cousin studied practical nursing in HS through a cooperative program. When she graduated from HS, she obtained a part time job and took classes towards her RN at a community college.
My brother took data entry at the cooperative vocational program in our county, but the bottom line was, he needed to obtain a BS in computer science in order to achieve in his field.
What makes you think everyone is on a managerial trainee track? This is part of the problem -- discussion about education is being defined by those who think their path is the best or only path. We have a very diverse population with very diverse education needs depending on where one is and what one intends to do.
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Originally Posted by phetaroi
No. Schools cannot be stuck in some favored past era. America and the world today is not even the America and the world on the past.
Agree. What we disagree on is who is stuck in the past. Today's education system isn't puppy dogs and roses. But no one is allowed to criticize it because any disagreement is met with disdain, accusations of lying, and the good old standard response of "anti education." It's none of that. Some of us can see the flaws. We hire the graduates of the education system and see what quality of graduate it turns out.
Those of us who disagree with how education works aren't anti education, nor are we making things up. I first got involved because I saw the change in quality of new hires that came across my desk. And I saw how my kids were being taught. I'm not talking about the teachers here, but the curriculum. And emphasis on testing focused on low level knowledge rather than deeper understanding. The more involved I've gotten, the more I've come to see that the quality of our education system cannot be evaluated by those inside it. Much like the auto industry in the 70s, they are too invested in the current system to see what those of us on the outside see.
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