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Sometimes kids fall in love with a sport and it starts playing a big role in kids' lives. Sometimes it even helps academics and also keeps kids out of trouble. If kids dream of playing post high school and have enough talent (so this is not just a pipe dream), they know very well that they need a decent GPA to play in college
(OK, money making sports like football and basketball is a different story perhaps). It is almost impossible to get admitted say to UC San Diego even if a coach say of some niche sport supports your admission unless you have at least 3.7 GPA and decent test scores. I know a kid who was on a US national junior team and was heavily recruited by a coach but was denied an admission to that Ivy school because his GPA was just 4.0.
I also know a couple of kids who worked their tails off in practice week in and week out (about 15 hours per week) for many years and then got admitted to UCLA and UCSD on their own merits (without coaches support) and did not want to play sport in college.
Sport nurtures a lot of friendships that sometimes last many years. As long as academics is in good shape, it is great if kids are serious about sports...
I don't think many people argue with the positives of playing sports. Rather I think for most people it's about the reality of spending thousands (yes thousands) on coaches and travel teams in the hopes of a scholarship when reality is, even in the big money sports like football, the vast majority of high school athletes won't get a scholarship at all, and those who do won't get enough to pay back the cost of years of private coaches and travel team and will find themselves on D3 teams at schools that also won't have the academics they need.
We say too many friends kids get "scholarships" to play at no name colleges who eventually dropped the sport and transferred to a better college for the academics.
In a way it's sad seeing these kids and their parents who bought (literally $$$) into the dream they'd be superstars getting hit by reality a year into college.
I don't think many people argue with the positives of playing sports. Rather I think for most people it's about the reality of spending thousands (yes thousands) on coaches and travel teams in the hopes of a scholarship when reality is, even in the big money sports like football, the vast majority of high school athletes won't get a scholarship at all, and those who do won't get enough to pay back the cost of years of private coaches and travel team and will find themselves on D3 teams at schools that also won't have the academics they need.
It does depend on a niche sport and a region, perhaps. I live in California. I know a lot of kids who got into the University of California system playing a niche sport. If a coach supports your application you do not need that 4.2-4.3 or higher GPA to be a viable applicant. 3.5 or higher for UC Irvine, UCSB, UC Davis will walk you through admissions if there are no red flags. If your GPA is below 3.0 you cannot get in nor matter what (basically). Perhaps 3.7 for UCSD and a somewhat similar number (3.8 ?) for Cal and UCLA.
It really helps that some niche sports are played only (or almost only) at colleges that are good academically.
In this sense, admissions is a new scholarship.
And I am not buying into the idea that a significant percentage of D1 niche sports athletes got into good colleges because of bribes or donations. I know many of those kids and know very well their talent level.
Varsity Blues is a very ugly story but a much more isolated story than some want to believe.
Those "crazy" sports parents have to be smart and realistic. They have to be able to compare the talent of their little Johnny to the talent of kids who are a little bit older now and who got into a good college because of sports to have some idea of a trajectory.
Basically, if say Peter, Mike, and Sam were stars on that 16U travel club team and now play in college and my Johny is now a star on the current 16U team and he has good grades than he might have a chance... Parents should be able to have frank conversations with coaches. They should be able to see if their "special" kid is really recruited by good colleges, etc, etc.
Of course if parents believe only what they want to believe than it is a problem but then it is a problem of their own making.
Last edited by norcalsocal; 10-24-2020 at 11:31 AM..
This is all very new to me but my Freshman daughter is highly competitive in her sport (Running and track and field) She currently attends a 2A private school but she is highly motivated to run for a 6A school. If we find a school that is good both academically and in her sport, should we move? Her times are comparable to other runners in the 6A school. We are flexible and could make a move without disrupting the family life too much. Has anyone else switched schools primarily for sports? Thanks, Pam
A few things for you to think about. Running and track and field, are individual sports. It doesn't matter if you're at a small or large high school. In Pennsylvania, there are two classifications for cross country, and track and field. It is usually slightly easier to win a medal at district and the state meet in the smaller school division. College recruiters only care about times, distances, and heights.
Most colleges have very little money for track scholarships. Most Division I track athletes are not on scholarship or eventually get a partial scholarship later in their career. A gold medal at the state meet will not guarantee a college scholarship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994
In Pennsylvania if you get caught switching schools "for sports" then your kid may be barred from scholastic competition.
It happened at the small Catholic school my kids went to. A student-athlete at one of the giant public schools in our area was unhappy with some aspects of his basketball team (coaching style, playing time, whatever) so he transferred to our school where he would be a big fish in a small pond. Then his Mom wrote a letter gloating about it, to his old coach. The coach could have thrown the letter away but he went to the PIAA and had the kid banned. (Disclaimer: I was told this by my son who was on the basketball team, at least 5 years ago. I have no direct knowledge of what happened)
So don't go around telling people you are switching schools "for sports"!
Your post is mostly correct in regard to Pennsylvania. When a transfer of an athlete takes place, both principals have to sign off. If one principal says the transfer was done for athletic intent, a hearing is held at the district level. The district can rule the athlete ineligible for one season. The athlete can appeal to the PIAA, which has overturned some district rulings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot
If her times are comparable it means there are lots of kids as fast as she is, not just in that school but many others.
Maybe a partial college scholarship at a Division 2 or 3 school would be possible.
Don't move for that.
There are very few Division 2 track scholarships. I live near a large D-II university and I know the have one scholarship available for track and cross country, which is divided up among several athletes.
NCAA Division III colleges are not allowed to give athletic scholarships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDak15
I agree. Why the hell do people disrupt their lives for kids' sports? That makes as much sense as people who spend tens of thousands over the years for traveling sports in the hope their kids get scholarships. Put it into a damn savings account and the kid can graduate debt free (or close to it).
People are naive if they are hoping their kids get athletic scholarships. My kids did travel sports because they wanted to be competitive in their sports and they enjoyed it. My one daughter played college basketball at a D-III college. I have a niece who plays D-I college basketball and she is not on scholarship.
Unless my child was so good that going pro was a very real possibility and switching schools for sports promised to help my child toward that possibility, I would never switch schools for sports.
Unless my child was so good that going pro was a very real possibility and switching schools for sports promised to help my child toward that possibility, I would never switch schools for sports.
How many high school freshmen are so good that going pro is a very real possibility? I've been following sports pretty closely since around 1969 and I would say no more than 2-3 per year in all sports combined. Some names that come to mind are LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Moses Malone, and Kevin Garnett in the NBA; Tiger Woods in golf; Bill Fralic in football; and several tennis players such as Boris Becker, Martina Hingis, and Serena Williams.
How many high school freshmen are so good that going pro is a very real possibility? I've been following sports pretty closely since around 1969 and I would say no more than 2-3 per year in all sports combined. Some names that come to mind are LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Moses Malone, and Kevin Garnett in the NBA; Tiger Woods in golf; Bill Fralic in football; and several tennis players such as Boris Becker, Martina Hingis, and Serena Williams.
While it's way more than 2-3 per year in all sports combined considering the number of people who are picked up in the professional sporting drafts alone (not to mention those who go pro in track and field, etc.)--we're talking about close to 1,000 a year if not more when you factor in the NBA, WNBA, MLS, MLB, NFL, and NHL drafts--I agree with the notion that it's not very many in the grand scheme of things when you consider how many high school athletes there are in total. Now, there may be 2-3 Kobe Bryant's or Tiger Woods' each year, but far more than that go pro each year. All of this is to say that I think very few people (or speaking for myself) should be switching schools for sports.
There are very few Division 2 track scholarships. I live near a large D-II university and I know the have one scholarship available for track and cross country, which is divided up among several athletes.
I appreciate your post but I need to clear something up on this particular point. D-II allows up to 12.6 scholarships for both men and women for cross country/track and field. And as you said, some don't have the money to fully fund the program to that level.
HOWEVER, unlike Division I, Division II does not count academic scholarships against their athletic total. Thus a lot of schools just recruit kids who can get academic aid to fill out their teams.
As to your point about track and field being an individual sport. This is true. If you run good times...you run good times and coaches won't care what level you are at.
I wouldn't go to a 6A school just for the sake of going to a 6A school but I might consider changing schools to go with a really good coach with a really strong program. This would probably improve your child's times if they aren't at a strong program at the 2A level.
But a lot of times college coaches realize that the athlete from the smaller schools haven't maxed out their potential. They realize they may have the proverbial "diamond in the rough" with the small school kid.
While it's way more than 2-3 per year in all sports combined considering the number of people who are picked up in the professional sporting drafts alone (not to mention those who go pro in track and field, etc.)--we're talking about close to 1,000 a year if not more when you factor in the NBA, WNBA, MLS, MLB, NFL, and NHL drafts--I agree with the notion that it's not very many in the grand scheme of things when you consider how many high school athletes there are in total. Now, there may be 2-3 Kobe Bryant's or Tiger Woods' each year, but far more than that go pro each year. All of this is to say that I think very few people (or speaking for myself) should be switching schools for sports.
This discussion started with the OP asking about his/her daughter who was a freshmen. First of all, in most states it is difficult to transfer and keep your athletic eligibility once you have started your 9th grade year. Second, we were talking about about a freshmen transferring because they have the potential to be a professional athlete. My point is there are very few high school freshmen who are viewed as having the potential to be a professional athlete. It is even a stretch to say that a HS freshmen is a potential D-I athlete. I have seen more female basketball players offered D-I scholarships than any other sport. Most the 9th grade boys haven't matured enough to even start at football at larger high schools. Bill Fralic was an exception to this. As a high school freshmen, he already looked like a D-I linebacker. He went on to be an All-American at Pitt and an All-Pro with the Atlanta Falcons. In the past 50 or so years, I've encountered or even heard of only one other freshman football player who the idea of an NFL career seemed feasible. This player got a scholarship to Boston College and went on to play several years in the NFL. The bottom line is in sports like basketball and football, most D-I players don't make it to the pros. So why would anyone even mention a professional career in regard to a high school freshman?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
I appreciate your post but I need to clear something up on this particular point. D-II allows up to 12.6 scholarships for both men and women for cross country/track and field. And as you said, some don't have the money to fully fund the program to that level.
HOWEVER, unlike Division I, Division II does not count academic scholarships against their athletic total. Thus a lot of schools just recruit kids who can get academic aid to fill out their teams.
As to your point about track and field being an individual sport. This is true. If you run good times...you run good times and coaches won't care what level you are at.
I wouldn't go to a 6A school just for the sake of going to a 6A school but I might consider changing schools to go with a really good coach with a really strong program. This would probably improve your child's times if they aren't at a strong program at the 2A level.
But a lot of times college coaches realize that the athlete from the smaller schools haven't maxed out their potential. They realize they may have the proverbial "diamond in the rough" with the small school kid.
Few D-II schools fully fund 12.6 scholarships for track and field. Academic and athletic scholarships have absolutely nothing to do with one another. The D-II state colleges in PA require that athletic scholarship are funded through by athletic department and not come out of the school general fund.
This discussion started with the OP asking about his/her daughter who was a freshmen. First of all, in most states it is difficult to transfer and keep your athletic eligibility once you have started your 9th grade year. Second, we were talking about about a freshmen transferring because they have the potential to be a professional athlete. My point is there are very few high school freshmen who are viewed as having the potential to be a professional athlete. It is even a stretch to say that a HS freshmen is a potential D-I athlete. I have seen more female basketball players offered D-I scholarships than any other sport. Most the 9th grade boys haven't matured enough to even start at football at larger high schools. Bill Fralic was an exception to this. As a high school freshmen, he already looked like a D-I linebacker. He went on to be an All-American at Pitt and an All-Pro with the Atlanta Falcons. In the past 50 or so years, I've encountered or even heard of only one other freshman football player who the idea of an NFL career seemed feasible. This player got a scholarship to Boston College and went on to play several years in the NFL. The bottom line is in sports like basketball and football, most D-I players don't make it to the pros. So why would anyone even mention a professional career in regard to a high school freshman?
I have discussed why I mentioned professional sports. It was to denote the unlikelihood that I'd ever make such a move. I do not disagree with you on the rarity generally. Quite frankly, I see no point in changing schools for sports purposes if a student athlete is a standard, run of the mill athlete. If you're not of the caliber where it's not looking like you'll be competitive for the pros (and for those with real talent, this is known before college even), I think its ridiculous to talk about changing schools due to sports. Now, there are plenty of reasons to change schools, but sports for the sake of sports isn't something that I'd recommend.
To a point in your previous post, I merely pointed out that well more than 2-3 per year are playing at a level where they will eventually go pro.
Going pro is nice but it has its obvious pitfalls.
"Sixty percent of NBA players go broke within five years of departing the league. And 78 percent of former NFL players experience financial distress two years after retirement."
On the other hand, if high school sports could help a kid to focus on academics, stay out of trouble and then get into a very good college- what is not to like? Finishing from a good college with a useful major helps a lot in life.
About switching schools: many hs coaches get just a tiny stipend form coaching a hs season. So it is a hit and miss. A quality coaching could make a big difference in athlete's progress during their hs years. A lousy one could be a huge problem. If a kid say has good friends in a school with excellent academic and athletic traditions- switching could bs an option.
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