If our educational system in America is so terrible why is graduating from High School so hard? (SAT, university)

[Stranded and Lonely]

I can not get over the difficulty my young High School aged relatives face in High School today. They go to good schools but not elite institutions. The level of classes they have to take and the amount of homework is absolutely incredible. Tough high level math, science, foreign languages and tough testing requirements. They are spending hours and hours on homework and expected to get involved in countless sports and activities so they will look great in a college application.

Don't forget the pressure that they have to do well on the SAT or ACT. Hours and hours of prep classes and practice tests. Finally, the social pressures are much higher today in High School.

Things are twice as tough for college bound High School students than I had it 25 years ago. Then why is everyone saying that the schools are so terrible?

[Tnt-User]

Quality is more important than quanity in education. Yes for some there's lots of work but if their not learning anything what's the point.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by Stranded and Lonely

I can not get over the difficulty my young High School aged relatives face in High School today. They go to good schools but not elite institutions. The level of classes they have to take and the amount of homework is absolutely incredible. Tough high level math, science, foreign languages and tough testing requirements. They are spending hours and hours on homework and expected to get involved in countless sports and activities so they will look great in a college application.

Don't forget the pressure that they have to do well on the SAT or ACT. Hours and hours of prep classes and practice tests. Finally, the social pressures are much higher today in High School.

Things are twice as tough for college bound High School students than I had it 25 years ago. Then why is everyone saying that the schools are so terrible?

Don't confuse college entrance requirements with high school graduation requirements. High school graduation requirements are pretty minimal, although most colleges will want to see a more rigorous set of coursework than the minimal amount required to graduate. For instance , in FL students only need Algebra I to graduate from high school but colleges want to see Algebra I/II and Geometry. Foreign language is not required for high school graduation but it is required for college entrance. SAT and ACT are not required for high school graduation. They are required for college entrance.

I do not think the social pressures are worse now than they were when I was a kid. They are just different so it may be harder for us old folks to relate to them.

I do not know if you are a college graduate but when I went to high school colleges wanted to see 3 years of math/science even though we did not need that much to graduate. They also wanted to see foreign language, even though we did not need that to graduate. I don't see that much of a difference between what my college bound 10th grader is taking and what I took in HS. He is taking:

English II
Algebra II
Chemistry
World History
Spanish II
Introduction to Legal Principles
Weightlifting

I looked at my 10th grade report card and I took:

English II
Trigonometry (scary name for Algebra II)
Chemistry
Afro/Asian Culture Studies (similar to World History-but not as broad)
French III
Orchestra
Physical Education

[Wisteria]

I would guess I'm probably a bit (maybe more than a bit) older than Momma Bear, because I was a menopausal parent of a child who just graduated from high school and who is now in college, so I'll give my perspective of it. I also do not agree that high schools are more difficult. I also agree with Momma Bear that there are college-bound requirements that are much higher than just high school diploma requirements.

However, for those on the college track, I still found high school not very good – and I know it's not just here, because back east where we had very high requirements (oh, gosh, let's see – over 4 decades ago!), they are now lowered, too. I graduated high school in New York State in the 1960s, which sounds like a long time ago (well, I guess it is! ). It seemed that it was in the '70s when things changed. Ironically, in my generation, you had many fewer people who actually went to college, yet, I know that they were better educated and literate than so many students who now attend college.

When I was in high school, the teachers actually taught the class. My child ended up having inordinate amounts of homework, and I'd ask if the teachers had taught the "homework" in class? Nope. Apparently, this wave of teachers has the kids teaching themselves, or going to websites for the information.

I remembered being terrified of college because high school was so difficult….instead, the very good university I attended seemed very easy in comparison. Later, I realized it was because our teachers taught a lot of material in class, many stayed late and were available for students, and there was little homework, except for studying for tests. I remember diagramming sentences on the blackboard, and you had to have very good grammar and spelling! I once had an Algebra teacher break her ruler on my desk when I started giggling…..they were strict about learning!

I also remember when the textbooks were "dumbed down." It's sad, but true. Our textbooks were written at a much higher level, and we were expected to understand them. Suddenly, textbooks became very easy to read (a 7th grade level, I was told).

My kid had to carry a huge backpack of books each day. The homework was ridiculous. I wouldn't have minded the homework and assignments if the teachers actually taught the material in class and homework was merely to reinforce it. However, especially, in the younger grades, the same thing happened. I felt that the teachers did not do their job – I don't recall ever having much homework at all – however, I know that I learned much more than my child did.

I was the one who ended up teaching English, spelling, grammar, writing, basic math, etc. I had to show my kid how to divide – they had some "new math" process for division, which "rounded off" the numbers, instead of decimal points being taught. I was frustrated that it fell on me to be sure those subjects were learned. I remember going in a few times to the principal and showing things such as the many misspelled words for spelling lists – which were random – none were related to each other in terms of vowel combinations, sounds, etc. They were just words plucked out of the air to memorize. I know that many of the kids did not have parents who spent an inordinate amount of time going over the subject matter that was "skipped." However, many of the parents were much younger, and did not receive the education I did, so I could understand that -- the same comparison point wasn't there.

I also took the state teachers' exam, and it was extremely easy (yes, I passed it easily but I went into a different job). There were numerous people retaking that test and there was no limit on how many times it was taken. Therefore, I know that many incompetent teachers slid through, eventually. I just finally accepted that if my kid were to learn well, that it was me who would have to do the teaching.

I don't think that high school now is so difficult, it's just that the teachers dump the work on the kids to learn on their own. Plus, the material matter is less difficult – which is why many kids have to take remedial English and Math once they hit college – that should not happen. It was worth it for me to do the supplemental teaching because my child ended up getting the AP credits for classes, did a study-abroad one semester and became fluent in Spanish, and did not have to take remedial classes, plus skipped some CORE classes for college. It was hard work on my end, and I admit I resented it. I just discovered that there was no fighting the current system, so I supplemented the work. When English papers that had spelling, grammatical and structural errors came home with a little smiley face and a "Good Job!" written on them, I'd take the red pen out and mark them up. My child actually appreciated that because it was the only time to learn what was wrong and how to correct it.

I also know that because of my persistence in getting my child a better education and fighting the system that they probably held a celebratory party after high school graduation knowing I'd no longer be walking through their doors!! Ha ha – true, though.

[Renaldo5000]

I don't know what kind of schools you have heard about, but my high school was pathetically easy. All you had to do was show up and you were passed through. I was stoned everyday and I never studied. It was the easiest thing I have ever done.

[Wisteria]

iwonderwhy2124 I don't know what kind of schools you have heard about, but my high school was pathetically easy. All you had to do was show up and you were passed through. I was stoned everyday and I never studied. It was the easiest thing I have ever done.

Wow, where and when was that?? Yikes!

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Stranded and Lonely

I can not get over the difficulty my young High School aged relatives face in High School today. They go to good schools but not elite institutions. The level of classes they have to take and the amount of homework is absolutely incredible. Tough high level math, science, foreign languages and tough testing requirements. They are spending hours and hours on homework and expected to get involved in countless sports and activities so they will look great in a college application.

Don't forget the pressure that they have to do well on the SAT or ACT. Hours and hours of prep classes and practice tests. Finally, the social pressures are much higher today in High School.

Things are twice as tough for college bound High School students than I had it 25 years ago. Then why is everyone saying that the schools are so terrible?

You're seeing the upper crust. There's heavy competition there for scholarships and entry into the college of your choice. Then there's the rest Countless students in credit recovery. Students who don't come to school and then act like they shouldn't be held accountable for anything because they weren't there to learn it. Students who feel entitled that someone make educaiton easy for them with parents who push that agenda.

Yes, there are some higher end schools that are pushing kids to suceed. Unfortunately, they are not the norm. If I gave my students even an hour of homework a week, I'd have parents complaining.

I'm not sure what else I took in 10th grade but I took Chemistry, Geometry and 21st century literature (science fiction). I would have had a history or social studies course, choir and gym. Trig was an 11th grade course. If memory serves me correctly, the series went: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II/Trig, Algebra III/Trig. I took four years of math but stopped science at Chemistry in 10th grade.

[Momma_bear]

Wisteria-I agree with much of your post. You are a bit older than me (I graduated HS in 1983) but I had a similar high school experience. I also removed my kids from the public secondary schools because of what I felt was substandard education being offered there. I think there are a few key reasons why schools are so bad even though kids do a ton of silly paperwork.

1. Standardized testing is king. There is no time for teachers to teach actual content in class because they are so busy preparing kids for standardized tests that the actual content goes out the window. There are also entire school days where there is no instruction because there is "benchmark" testing, which is intended to see how well students will do on the standardized tests.

I think the hours of homework is directly related to the increase in standardized testing. The teachers send home the stuff they should have taught in class because they have to teach the standardized test stuff instead.

2. All students are expected to graduate from HS. In my day there were people that did not graduate. If they failed their classes, or dropped out of HS they did not get a HS diploma. The percentage of people who graduate from HS has increased dramatically. US Census Press Releases (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/001863.html - broken link)

People are not any smarter today than they were 20 years ago (they're not dumber either). They are pretty much the same as they were years ago, yet everyone is expected to graduate today. That can only happen by dropping standards.

3. There is an expectation that a very large proportion of HS graduate will be prepared for college work. This results in the standards for the "college prep" classes like Algebra II and Chemistry being lower than they had been in the past. In the past not everyone was expected to go to college so not everyone took the more rigorous classes. Now everyone wants to go to college so everyone wants to take the harder classes. As a result-standards need to be lowered to get kids to pass.

When I was a HS student I went to a HUGE HS. My graduating class had 2 sections of AP English. I wonder how many sections of AP English are offered today. When I was in school AP English was considered a very hard class, reserved for the very top students. There were about 50 of us in a graduating class of 1600 who took the class. There was 1 section each of AP Chemistry, Biology, and Physics.

We did NO EXTRA WORK OVER THE SUMMER for AP classes. AP classes were for the top students. We did not need to drill all summer for AP classes because only the top 5% of students were taking AP classes. Today the child who is average is expected to take AP classes. As a result teachers have taken to giving huge amounts of work over the summer so that the students who don't belong in the class can keep up. That was not necessary when you only had the top kids taking the hardest classes.

[pennel]

Because they are not producing and educated person

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by Wisteria

Wow, where and when was that?? Yikes!

I graduated from a public Pennsylvanian high school in 1997 . It was a joke. I didn't learn anything and spent more time sleeping in class than anything else.

That first hit of the joint before homeroom was always the best. haha