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NoExcuses--I am not a teacher, I am a parent. I don't know were you live but I am very thankful I don't live there. The problems you see with your schools are not issues we have here. Our schools are wonderful. They do an excellent job of educating the kids. We have 94% of our kids going on to 4 year colleges, 4% go on to community college/tech school or military. We have a well funded system and responsible administration that is supportive of the staff and students. The more I read about other areas on this board the more I am glad that I live in MN because according to everyone else here their schools are crap. I wonder how all of these kids will EVER survive. There just aren't that many kids in MN so I am not sure how all these colleges around the country are filling up, but maybe there are more kids in MN then I though .
Part of the difference is how different parts of the country organize school districts. It's foolish to compare a suburban district like Hopkins SD in Minnesota, with less than 8000 students, or Dublin OH, with 14,000, to a major metropolitan area like Hillsborough County, FL with 194,000 enrolled in one county-wide system. Just as a note of comparison, there are nearly as many kids in Hillsborough in SpEd alone as there are in Hopkins's entire district (Dublin, ftr, had a grand total of 42). Clearly, comparing things like funding, graduation rates and SAT scores is going to be an exercise in silliness.
Part of the difference is how different parts of the country organize school districts. It's foolish to compare a suburban district like Hopkins SD in Minnesota, with less than 8000 students, or Dublin OH, with 14,000, to a major metropolitan area like Hillsborough County, FL with 194,000 enrolled in one county-wide system. Just as a note of comparison, there are nearly as many kids in Hillsborough in SpEd alone as there are in Hopkins's entire district (Dublin, ftr, had a grand total of 42). Clearly, comparing things like funding, graduation rates and SAT scores is going to be an exercise in silliness.
Our district has about 27,000 kids. I don't care how many students you have, the percentages COULD still be the same everywhere if parents and the schools were up to par. Statewide MN has roughly 90% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, which is a lot more kids then 190,000.
In fact, if we solved our cultural problems, I would expect that our educational issues would improve even without additional funding.
You're right. And more money won't solve those cultural problems either. In fact, you could make a strong case that the money we have spent trying to 'solve' those cultural problems has made them a lot worse.
Statewide MN has roughly 90% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, which is a lot more kids then 190,000.
Less than twice as many, actually, and you're comparing a fairly rural state to one part of a metropolitan area (the Tampa Bay Area, just as an example, has two primary school districts, and parts of three others).
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
Our district has about 27,000 kids. I don't care how many students you have, the percentages COULD still be the same everywhere if parents and the schools were up to par.
IOW, "If things were completely different, they could be different". Well, gosh... yeah.
My other question here is...why are we assuming 90% of kids going on to four year colleges is a good thing? Doesn't society need plumbers, florists, pharmacy techs, butchers, stonemasons...? Or is that what liberal arts majors are for?
You're right. And more money won't solve those cultural problems either. In fact, you could make a strong case that the money we have spent trying to 'solve' those cultural problems has made them a lot worse.
Less than twice as many, actually, and you're comparing a fairly rural state to one part of a metropolitan area (the Tampa Bay Area, just as an example, has two primary school districts, and parts of three others).
IOW, "If things were completely different, they could be different". Well, gosh... yeah.
My other question here is...why are we assuming 90% of kids going on to four year colleges is a good thing? Doesn't society need plumbers, florists, pharmacy techs, butchers, stonemasons...? Or is that what liberal arts majors are for?
Well, that leaves 10% to be plumbers and whatnot then doesn't it??
One of the problems is the de-professionalization of teachers. A lot of people believe that experience in a school setting as a student or parent is all you need to "understand" how to teach children. As well, with the increasing standardization of curricula, some districts have reams of scripted lesson plans that teachers are expected to follow. When such a system is followed to the letter, the teacher is no more than a glorified proctor reading from a recipe book. With growing cynicism amongst taxpayers, it's then logical that folks might think, "Why pay more for a glorified proctor to read from a pre-written lesson plan?"
As an NCLB "highly qualified" teacher, who invested a lot of money to retrain as a teacher, I'm all for increased pay, loan forgiveness, and low-cost continuing education programs. As well, I'd love to plan engaging lessons that are appropriate for my students without having to worry whether or not I can afford the materials such a lesson would involve.
Interesting (if unrealistic) thought experiment: What if, for just one year, the federal government invested in education the amount of money we spend on defense in one year?
Gosh could you imagine~ But then agin it's only for OUR kids right
Our district has about 27,000 kids. I don't care how many students you have, the percentages COULD still be the same everywhere if parents and the schools were up to par. Statewide MN has roughly 90% of their kids going on to 4 year colleges, which is a lot more kids then 190,000.
How far off could you possibly be? First, I just really doubt that 90% of all kids go to college in MN.
Minnesota education officials have pointed with pride to the state's high school graduation rate -- which was 90 percent in 2005 -- as among the nation's best. But a new formula adopted just recently puts the rate for the same year, 2005, at a more lowly 73 percent.
Well, that leaves 10% to be plumbers and whatnot then doesn't it??
It leaves a whole lot of people who will never use their college degrees. Which is okay, I guess, since a number of those who are in your 90% college bound group will never graduate anyway, since they don't belong there in the first place. But hey--- the Student Loan Commission will get fat and happy, so it's all good, at least until the defaults roll in.
Gee, here it states that 64% chose to attend college in MN in 2006. What about your drop out rate? I believe your "90%college" is a distortion.
I agree.You have a lot more than 10% in MN to be plumbers, etc..
I expect Golf was referring to her itty bitty corner of Minnesota, and extrapolating to assume the whole nation can be measured by their experience.
I also expect that the statistic of "90% of our kids" refers to those who graduate in any given year, not all of those who started 4 years earlier. Even allowing for population transience, there will be a discrepancy.
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