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I would also like to share with you that very often the schools with the lower test scores have some of the most dedicated, talented and caring teachers. I have found that to be true as a parent of three children and a teacher who has taught for 27 years. I am not saying this is always the case. There are wonderful families in some very low income areas and there are schools in both upper and lower income areas which have both excellent teachers and poorer teachers.
Another excellent point. 99% of educational stats that measure schools do not for privacy reasons grade schools on educational value-added.
You need to consider your children and find out that special combination of actors that can enable your child to blossom like a flower.
One of my children was in a pretty mediocre school. Yet b/c the class sizes were tiny (<10), she was able to transform into a class leader and develop certain social skills that would have been near impossible for her in a large factory school, regardless of its documented excellence.
It was a true revelation for me and a lesson that can be applied to many areas of life.
Not necessarily. Because a doctor tests well and is booksmart doesn't mean he's a good doctor. The bolded are contradictory statements.
No contridiction. Test scores are all we really have and, yes, they're used improperly. There is nothing contradictory about that statement. I'm saying what we have is flawed but it's what we have.
If no school taught to the test. If students simply took the tests, THEN you could compare scores and have something more meaningful. They don't. Some schools teach to the test, others don't. Unfortunately, test scores are what are compared.
It's kind of like comparing the ACT scores from my high shcool which did no ACT prep to ACT scores at a friend's high school where everyone took a one year course in ACT prep. Their scores we a lot higher but was that because they were a better school (they are in this case) or because they prepped their students?
Last year, our school started using the ACT books as our bellwork in core classes. Scores jumped. We didn't change. Our student's familiarity with the test format changed.
For better or for worse, test scores are all we really have to measure schools by. After that, it starts getting subjective really fast.
I'd say look at poverty rates but I've, recently, been told that SES doesn't matter and that I'm hanging on to old ideas thinking it does . Last I read there was a correlation between % of students on free lunch and school performance. Teacher quality isn't something you can really pin a number on and measure between schools since all teachers have to have the same qualifications to teach. I have no idea if more teacher education equates to higher quality teachers.
Test scores are a good place to start but also look into graduation rates, rates of kids going on to college, number of kids on free/reduced lunches. Since you have narrowed down your choices, look at those numbers then go visit the schools. Get a feel for the overall importance in education. A school that has average test scores and graduates less than 50% of it's students doesn't cut it in my book. I do think there is a big difference between a school with 85 and a school with a 92--you just need to find out what is causing the difference.
test scores-----When testing results come back, it is interesting reading interviews with school administrators in our regional newspapers.
The schools with high test scores tout them.
The schools with low test scores downplay the importance.
However, if those schools that are low show an improvement the next time, those same administrators are touting the great achievement their school made.
Amazing ! ( bragging about improving on a "meaningless" test score)
Maybe hypocritical would be a better word choice than " amazing".
As a parent, I'd look into something besides test scores. When a school is high on tests, it means they focus a lot on the kids taking those tests instead of actually educating them. I'd rather be in a district with a little lower scores and better basic education.
test scores-----When testing results come back, it is interesting reading interviews with school administrators in our regional newspapers.
The schools with high test scores tout them.
The schools with low test scores downplay the importance.
However, if those schools that are low show an improvement the next time, those same administrators are touting the great achievement their school made.
Amazing ! ( bragging about improving on a "meaningless" test score)
Maybe hypocritical would be a better word choice than " amazing".
Reps for this one. You are so right. Their importance is determined by how well they did.
As a parent, I'd look into something besides test scores. When a school is high on tests, it means they focus a lot on the kids taking those tests instead of actually educating them. I'd rather be in a district with a little lower scores and better basic education.
The problem is we need some way of measuring how well we're teaching. What would you suggest besides standardized testing? How would you measure how well we educate kids if you could do it your way?
Is a doctor who graduated with a 3.9 GPA better than a doctor who graduated with a 2.9 GPA?
Not necessarily. A lot also depends on core experience. Reading a book on diagnosis is quite different than having a patient in front of you displaying symptoms IMO.
Like it or not test scores are all we really have. However, when they are close, you need to look at other factors like classroom size (not student to teacher ratio, those can be thrown off by something like a large special ed program), quality of facilities and average number of years teachers stay in the district. Here teacher credentials aren't an issue because you cannot teach with a teaching certificate which requires the teacher to sit for a basic exam and, at least, an exam for a major so that playing field is fairly level but if you're in a state that allows non certified teachers to teach, that's another one to look at.
If test scores were used the way they were intended to be used, they'd be a better indicator than they are. They've become something to beat schools up over so schools now teach to the test. Some are attaining higher scores but they haven't changed their basic program to get them. They just teach to the test now so the water is muddy.
That's why I'd go elsewhere than just looking to the test scores. They aren't used as they were intended to be at all IMO. If it's at all possible, one should visit the school and get the general feel of it. If there are other parents you can talk to, that would help as well.
The problem is we need some way of measuring how well we're teaching. What would you suggest besides standardized testing? How would you measure how well we educate kids if you could do it your way?
As golfgal suggested: Grad rate, % of grad class entering college, etc.. I would also visit the school and see how the classrooms are set up. I would be more impressed with classrooms that weren't filled with a lot of extra junk. I would look at the educational programs (math texts, science, grammar and writing) they use.
The LAST thing I would look at, if at all, is the test scores.
That's why I'd go elsewhere than just looking to the test scores. They aren't used as they were intended to be at all IMO. If it's at all possible, one should visit the school and get the general feel of it. If there are other parents you can talk to, that would help as well.
Exactly.
Test scores aren't the be all end all of anything.
Most of them are doctored to manipulate the outcome. I have known school staff to stand next to, or sit next to certain students and, when they see an incorrect answer, ask those students if they are sure that's the answer they want to choose, until the students choose the correct answers.
Administrations tweek results to make their schools look better.
Testing has become so corrupt that it doesn't even count in my book.
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. Last I read there was a correlation between % of students on free lunch and school performance. Teacher quality isn't something you can really pin a number on and measure between schools since all teachers have to have the same qualifications to teach. I have no idea if more teacher education equates to higher quality teachers.
