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Because the people don't want them to. A national health care system, that will be filled with waste, fraud and abuse? No thank you.
And you're right - we're not a very civilized country. When the half of the country that pays no taxes, wants to steal more of my money, so they can benefit from their lack of planning? Shameful, I say.
First off, where is their any links to your projection that a national HC system will be filled with waste, fraud and abuse?
Uh, that's Federal income taxes. The only people who pay no taxes are the rich who skate through the tax system using loopholes. All the rest of us, poor, middle or others pay taxes in the form of state taxes, sales taxes, FICA and other fees.
"Almost 1/3". What about the "over 2/3" who aren't covered? And all you people (it's not just you) who think wandering into an ER is a substitute for good health care have another think coming. ERs will treat acute illnesses, but no ER is going to let you come in once a month to get your blood pressure taken, or do a mammogram or pap on you, or a myriad of other types of health care that don't fall into "acute illness". The only type of cancer care you can get in an ER is after the cancer has so wracked your body that your systems are shutting down. And you know what? I am one of those "older nurses". The system didn't work all that great. Ron Paul is fantasizing.
the 42 mil was divided up roughly 1/3 would get signed up, 1/3 were illegals, 1/3 were young and didnt feel the need to have it.
As far as you saying it didn't work, I wonder why? The places Ron Paul worked they didn't turn people away. Doesn't that say more about the man compared to the people you worked with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
It's not nearly so obvious as you think. Another poster said it well. Statistically, there is little difference for some diseases between the vegetarians and the junk food eaters. Many diseases are pretty much "equal opportunity". Genetics plays a role, including one's sex.
And you believed that poster? Why? Where is the proof? btw Who is saying vegetarians are the target point? As far as cancer, studies showed vegetarians have a lower rate of cancer than red meat eaters, while fish eaters are the lowest.
And yes eating habits are a huge factor. Dunno where you're believeing this bad information. How many obese live long? I guess all those people just had "bad" genes. I'm having to prove obese people are unhealthier. what next?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
What is your point?
umm like I said treat the cause instead of the symptom.
Because the people don't want them to. A national health care system, that will be filled with waste, fraud and abuse? No thank you.
And you're right - we're not a very civilized country. When the half of the country that pays no taxes, wants to steal more of my money, so they can benefit from their lack of planning? Shameful, I say.
That whole thing about half of the country paying no taxes is so much poppycock. Please quit listening to those idiotic Tea Party talking points. They pay payroll taxes, sales taxes and lots of other taxes. Do you really think the poor are out to get you? It's the RICH who are out to get you.
First off, where is their any links to your projection that a national HC system will be filled with waste, fraud and abuse?
Uh, that's Federal income taxes. The only people who pay no taxes are the rich who skate through the tax system using loopholes. All the rest of us, poor, middle or others pay taxes in the form of state taxes, sales taxes, FICA and other fees.
Hahahahaha.....oh, wait. You're serious? Better to ask me what govt program ISN'T filled with waste, fraud and abuse. I dont' think I could come up with one. You don't need projection to see that it would happen. Just common sense and an ability to look at history.
Now your turn to provide a link to show where the rich pay NO taxes. By your measure, the poor and the rich are the same - they pay nothing in income tax. As for your LIE that the rich pay no taxes - again using your example, please show me one instance where the clerk has asked "are you rich" and when the answer was yes, they deleted sales tax.
Is this the new Lib tactic - slyly inserting "fee" instead of "tax"? Interesting.
That whole thing about half of the country paying no taxes is so much poppycock. Please quit listening to those idiotic Tea Party talking points. They pay payroll taxes, sales taxes and lots of other taxes. Do you really think the poor are out to get you? It's the RICH who are out to get you.
The poor get tax breaks, thereby paying NONE. The rich get tax breaks, thereby paying NONE. Yet the rich take nothing in return, above and beyond what an average citizen might take. Yet they give back in the form of employment. The poor, on the other hand, take and take and take and take more than most.
The poor get tax breaks, thereby paying NONE. The rich get tax breaks, thereby paying NONE. Yet the rich take nothing in return, above and beyond what an average citizen might take. Yet they give back in the form of employment. The poor, on the other hand, take and take and take and take more than most.
Hahahahaha.....oh, wait. You're serious? Better to ask me what govt program ISN'T filled with waste, fraud and abuse. I dont' think I could come up with one. You don't need projection to see that it would happen. Just common sense and an ability to look at history.
Now your turn to provide a link to show where the rich pay NO taxes. By your measure, the poor and the rich are the same - they pay nothing in income tax. As for your LIE that the rich pay no taxes - again using your example, please show me one instance where the clerk has asked "are you rich" and when the answer was yes, they deleted sales tax.
Is this the new Lib tactic - slyly inserting "fee" instead of "tax"? Interesting.
Fees...........you know like registration fees for your vehicle..........things like that. Just a tax by another name. Not a liberal plot to confuse right wingers. sheesh.........
Not at all. Alphamale gave a great example of someone who has a limited amount of funds and chose to spend them on luxury items instead of planning for the future whether it is health or life insurance.
Wolf's question in the debate was loaded. He did not give enough background information. Had the fictitious person in the question been given the opportunity to buy health insurance but chose to buy a jet ski instead then he deserves what he gets.
It was a loaded question. Did this fictitious young man make the choice to spend his money elsewhere and not prepare for the future? If he had chosen to pay for a nice house and an expensive car and skimp on insurance because he did not need it then that is 100% his fault. His actions had consequences. Should I be on the hook for his bills because of his choice? Why? Don't tell me that I already am because of of higher medical bills. If that's the case, why don't we all not get insurance and watch the system break down?
I thought this was an economics discussion. I attend church for weddings and funerals.
At least 1. My sister has less than a year due to colon cancer. She lead a hard life of drinking, drugs and other various abuses of her body and now she wants someone to fix it for her. On the other hand, my father-in-law had the best care from one of the best brain surgeons in the entire world and the brain tumor still took him in less than 5 months from diagnosis.
Either way, now my wife and I are purchasing cancer insurance. It's the responsible thing to do based on recently events. I am giving up money I would spend on fun things like guns and ammo.
Who cares if it was a loaded question? Paul did his best to answer it, the few audience members who cheered were disgusting. My issue is not with Paul, it is with the asshats who cheered.
You are correct, this is an economic discussion. HOWEVER, many conservative political folks wear their religion on their sleeve and at a Republican debate, sponsored by the TP, to hear cheers for a hypothetical death was shocking. I guess lack of compassion for fellow members of society is between you and your god (general you, not YOU).
That is awful about your sister. How she got her disease is not relevant. She still wants to live and not die a premature death. Colon cancer need not be a death sentence. With proper medical care (regular check ups, yearly tests when you reach a certain age) one can survive. I don't see this as 'wanting someone to fix it for her'. She doesn't want to die.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
.......Was your father dying of cancer when he worked those two jobs? Did he have brain damage and paraplegia from an accident? Or perhaps was he severely mentally ill, thinking that he was the Emperor of France and assaulting anyone who dared to disagree?
OK, I guess I have to spell that out a little more. Your father wouldn't have been able to work if he had those conditions early on. Without work, he wouldn't have been able to afford insurance ...... and if he had overcome those disabilities somehow, and if he had received a great job offer with a high salary from someone looking for a recovered paranoid schizophrenic or a guy in a wheelchair, he still wouldn't have been able to get insurance because of those prior conditions. The insurance companies would have rightly judged themselves to be at high risk of him having further problems in the future, and having to pay him more than they would receive in his lifetime.
He could have been the best, hardest worker in the world, but he wouldn't have been covered by private insurance if he'd been struck down early in life. If you look at PA coal miners for an example of how things worked back then, you'd find that maimed workers or those who suffered heart attacks etc, were let go (or the dead buried), and the women would be given about $50 as a final payment. That was what they had to make do with for a lifetime of care, and to find a new job for the widow to raise the family. Many of these families ended up living with relatives while the miner was maybe put into a corner of the house without health care other than what the family knew, others had no family that would take them in, and so were driven to prostitution, theft, or trying to get by in any other way they could.
Some women were able to translate that $50 into some survivable micro-business like a boarding house, but I'm guessing that most of them and their children led lives of incredible suffering and malnutrition, probably dying young because of the latter.
We can do better than that now, we don't need to jettison public health care and go back a hundred or more years to the old system of no safety nets. All it would take would be to reduce military expenditures to, say, what Russia and China combined spend. That's not too much to ask for, no one will invade us with all our nukes.
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Originally Posted by alphamale
......B) No. My father is alive and well. However, he was always covered just in case. I know people who have died from cancer and they were all covered by their insurance companies. We have a very close family friend who is 60 years old and is in the middle stages of Alzheimer's, and her care is covered by her insurance.
It wasn't always easy for those who have carried the responsibility for a family and themselves, but they manage.
The point is, very few people are in a position to go through life uninsured.
I have a close friend who has a small $50,000 life insurance policy through work. He has a 7 year old and a 3 year old. He is 49 years old. I spoke to him about the need for more life insurance just in case. He said that it is too expensive.
Meanwhile, he has a trailer at the shore, a boat, jet ski, 2 new cars and many other luxury items.
If he should die, his wife will be left without a home and no security for her children's future.
Who's responsibility are they?
Conservatives often frame the issue like that - if people weren't so irresponsible, they would forego buying jetskis, new cars, and McMansions and get covered by private health insurance.
You and the other conservatives simply live in a different world, where income is high enough to pay for private insurance and necessities, then if one is perfectly healthy with no pre-existing medical conditions, one can get squared away with insurance before buying the jetskis and McMansion.
Many people in this country (let's say roughly a third) live in a very different world, that of low incomes and poverty. Sometimes it's their fault for partying through high school and not finishing college, but more often it's not, just bad luck(they played their hands wrong) and perhaps low intelligence or disabilities.
In the rural county in which I live, there are simply very few jobs that pay more than about minimum wage, and the unemployment rate hovers near 20%. Recently I heard one guy come into the pharmacy I go to, and complain about how he couldn't afford private insurance to cover the medication he needed - he was lucky to pull in $1500 per month, and the cheapest private insurance would have cost close to $1000. Well, he had rent and food to pay for with the $500 left over if he chose to get insurance, and gas/insurance/maintenance for his beat up old pickup (the source of most of his income).
He was apparently too stupid or proud to get public health coverage ..... I think it was pride, as I heard a few insults about those on "welfare". He wouldn't take any handouts no matter what!
He had been brainwashed into that ridiculous pride by rich people who own or manage radio or TV stations, or buy fundamentalist preachers to propagate their rightwing message to simple folks, and who broadcast propaganda about how it was supposedly shameful to get public health coverage even if direly needed. The people who are responsible for that message likely never worked at any kind of manual labor in their entire lives, and they have a helluva a lot more than jetskis and McMansions - all of which they got from underpaying hardworking decent people in their factories.
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