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And that has what to do with keeping religious dogma out of government?
Our Founding Fathers didn't separate or keep out their religious beliefs/views out of the government. Although, I agree with Sen. Ted Cruz:
"Faith is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Life, liberty, and property, the fundamental natural rights of man are given to every one of us by God, and the role of government fundamentally is to protect those rights. I think anyone in politics — you've got a special obligation to avoid being a pharisee, to avoid ostentatiously wrapping yourself in your faith. Because I think in politics, it's too easy for that to become a crutch, for that to be politically useful."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Our Founding Fathers didn't separate or keep out their religious beliefs/views out of the government.
Au contraire.......................................
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both there (England) and in New England."
- Benjamin Franklin
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid, or produces only atheists and fanatics."
- Thomas Paine
"Notwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, and the full establishment of it in some parts of our country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Government and Religion neither can be duly supported. Such, indeed, is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded against. And in a Government of opinion like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
- James Madison
Au contraire.......................................
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both there (England) and in New England."
- Benjamin Franklin
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid, or produces only atheists and fanatics."
- Thomas Paine
"Notwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, and the full establishment of it in some parts of our country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Government and Religion neither can be duly supported. Such, indeed, is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded against. And in a Government of opinion like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
- James Madison
I believe that Benjamin Franklin gets to the point - orthodoxy - which was a huge turn off, and which many misconstrue their comments to be agnostic or deists.
"Many have quarreled about religion that never practiced it." - Benjamin Franklin
"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - Benjamin Franklin
"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it." - James Madison
"Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us." - Thomas Paine
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." - Thomas Jefferson
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
I believe that Benjamin Franklin gets to the point - orthodoxy - which was a huge turn off, and which many misconstrue their comments to be agnostic or deists.
"Many have quarreled about religion that never practiced it." - Benjamin Franklin
"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." - Benjamin Franklin
"The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it." - James Madison
"Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us." - Thomas Paine
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time: the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." - Thomas Jefferson
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson
I'll stick with:
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson
What an idiot. Such a contentious issue, and yet he felt the need to pander to the religious right. The USA is not nor has ever been a Christian nation.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanCrossroads
What an idiot. Such a contentious issue, and yet he felt the need to pander to the religious right. The USA is not nor has ever been a Christian nation.
Funny that a supposedly 'good' Christian who had no issues supporting the kid-glove treatment of a Cuban terrorist implicated in among other things the bombing of a civilian airliner has such issues with peoples' desire to formalize monogamous relationships.
his argument was that the word marriage belonged to Christianity, but that the government in and of itself did not have the right to tell people who they could and could not marry.
There is a difference between personal philosophy and Public governance.
For example, my personal philosophy is that abortion is wrong, but public governance dictates that its none of my business.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
his argument was that the word marriage belonged to Christianity, but that the government in and of itself did not have the right to tell people who they could and could not marry.
Jeb seems like a man who will say whatever it takes to get elected. Look at his boondoggle with the question his own republican news asked him! He has made a fool of himself. Consider someone else. We already had enough experience with TWO past bushes. HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SMART ONE!
That's all this is. You can set your watch to Republicans tilting further to the right when the primaries get closer.
Thing is, this is totally unnecessary on Bush's part. At this point, even the Republican Party knows which way the wind is blowing. Saying that you're against gay marriage at this point is just pandering to a dying piece of the electorate.
Moreover, no one really believes that Jeb Bush is against gay marriage or that he's all that religious...if he's religious at all and i doubt very serious that he is.
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson
You can't trump this:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
Just sayin'...
Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ.
- George Washington, Prayer
We have this day [Fourth of July] restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come.
- Samuel Adams
The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
- John Adams
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