Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That isn't the subject of this thread. So far Hillary Clinton is leading in the popular vote and the pledged delegates with no help at all from superdelegates. What don't you understand about this? It's really very simple.
By the way, she has not "bought" any delegates. Bernie Sanders has never been a Democrat and Hillary Clinton has spent the past 48 years being loyal to one party.
Anyway, there is no point in discussing this further unless she falls behind. So far, she is ahead by the popular vote and pledged delegates, so people who continue to bring up the superdelegates when anyone mentions she's ahead, are being obtuse. She is currently winning because people went to the polls and voted for her. Period.
Get back to me when that changes.
You're right!
Some Bernie supporters are obsessed about the perceived unfairness of the superdelegate system, but they are putting the cart in front of the horse. If Bernie doesn't win more pledged delegates than Hillary, this discussion is moot. If he wins more than Hillary does, then he will able to convince some of Hillary's superdelegates to switch their support. This superdelegate system has been around for decades. . .. DNC didn't implement it to specifically thwart Bernie.
DNC will support a true Democrat more than an Independent, all things being equal, and will support the candidate they perceive to be the strongest against the GOP nominee. Is that so nuts?
DNC will support a true Democrat more than an Independent, all things being equal, and will support the candidate they perceive to be the strongest against the GOP nominee.
That raise my next question to Bernie supports, "how many Democrats have you actually campaigned for?" How many Democratic Party voter registration drives have you participated? How many down stream Democrats running for everything from the city council to local Democratic committee person have you knocked on doors for or at is a cramped office making calls to potential voters? If the answer is no, then I really don't want to here about the Democratic Party "establishment".
In New Hampshire, Hillary was defeated very heavily, but she left with more delegates than Bernie, so she actually won even though she had far fewer votes. The party ultimately decides who gets to run. Its like Hong Kong under Communist Chinese rule, they have elections, but all the candidates have been vetted and approved by the Communist Party.
Worry about the Republican party - currently plotting a third party run against THEIR OWN FRONTRUNNER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino
That raise my next question to Bernie supports, "how many Democrats have you actually campaigned for?" How many Democratic Party voter registration drives have you participated? How many down stream Democrats running for everything from the city council to local Democratic committee person have you knocked on doors for or at is a cramped office making calls to potential voters? If the answer is no, then I really don't want to here about the Democratic Party "establishment".
You know that the answer is largely no. "They don't blindly follow one party".
Some Bernie supporters are obsessed about the perceived unfairness of the superdelegate system, but they are putting the cart in front of the horse.
Exactly. However, Bernie doesn't seem to care much about the will of the people. I've watched him say this in a couple of interviews, but I missed "Face The Nation."
He's saying that in states where he won, he should get the superdelegates for that state. Okay, maybe that makes some sense, but when asked about all the states he didn't win, he said he would still try to convince those delegates that he is the better candidate.
I wish his supporters would listen carefully to him.
Sanders knows that mathematically he can't beat Clinton at this point, but he's trying to pull a John Kasich (i.e prevent from receiving the magic number and forcing a brokered convention with the hopes that his fan base will give him a shot).
That raise my next question to Bernie supports, "how many Democrats have you actually campaigned for?" How many Democratic Party voter registration drives have you participated? How many down stream Democrats running for everything from the city council to local Democratic committee person have you knocked on doors for or at is a cramped office making calls to potential voters? If the answer is no, then I really don't want to here about the Democratic Party "establishment".
Well, if you asked Bernie Sanders the same questions, wouldn't his answer be "zero." Until 2015 he was not a Democrat. The only reason he's encouraged any voters to register as a Democrat is so they can vote in closed primaries for him.
Exactly. However, Bernie doesn't seem to care much about the will of the people. I've watched him say this in a couple of interviews, but I missed "Face The Nation."
He's saying that in states where he won, he should get the superdelegates for that state. Okay, maybe that makes some sense, but when asked about all the states he didn't win, he said he would still try to convince those delegates that he is the better candidate.
I wish his supporters would listen carefully to him.
Which he is allowed to do by the rules of the game.
I don't think he is trying to get pledged delegates to ignore their marching orders. His game plan right now has to be to win enough pledged delegates and sway enough super delegates so that Clinton doesn't have enough votes to win on the first ballot. It is very unlikely that he can do it with pledged delegates alone from this point. After that first ballot, pledged delegates are free to vote for whom they want, and that's the eventuality he is making the pitch for.
My understanding is that R automatic delegates do have to vote for the majority candidate for their state, so this rule change would be in line with them. Not saying that's what D super delegates should do, but that's the argument Sanders will make at the rules discussion at the convention, and if enough convention delegates agree, then the rule will change.
I remember the fights over the alternate delegates sent to the 1968 convention. This is the same fight in many ways, and then I was firmly in Julian Bond's camp. But when I look at the way Trump is highjacking the Rs, I see why the rule was instituted, and age has made me more cautious. So I'm not quite sure yet where I am going to come down on this.
Which he is allowed to do by the rules of the game.
I don't think he is trying to get pledged delegates to ignore their marching orders. His game plan right now has to be to win enough pledged delegates and sway enough super delegates so that Clinton doesn't have enough votes to win on the first ballot. It is very unlikely that he can do it with pledged delegates alone from this point. After that first ballot, pledged delegates are free to vote for whom they want, and that's the eventuality he is making the pitch for.
My understanding is that R automatic delegates do have to vote for the majority candidate for their state, so this rule change would be in line with them. Not saying that's what Ds should do, but that's the argument Sanders will make at the rules discussion at the convention, and if enough convention delegates agree, then the rule will change.
I remember the fights over the alternate delegates sent to the 1968 convention. This is the same fight in many ways, and then I was firmly in Julian Bond's camp. But when I look at the way Trump is highjacking the Rs, I see why the rule was instituted, and age has made me more cautious. So I'm not quite sure yet where I am going to come down on this.
But his supporters keep blaming the existence of the system when Bernie used DNC as tool for his presidential ambition knowing about the system of superdelegates.
I just thought of something that might make things a little clearer.
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population"]U.S. States by Population[/URL]
Look at a list of states by population. List the states with more than 10 million. Then cross out the states that haven't yet held primaries. This is what you have left.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
