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FDR,Truman, Eisenhower,Kennedy, Johnson,and even Nixon were all to the left of Clinton on governance. If your definition of Liberal is Clinton, then I would guess that it is based on social issues, not actual policies.
I can't vote for someone who wants open boarders, wants to amnesty all or most illegal aliens, takes the positions she does on gun issues, wants to pass even more regulations on small business, wants to raise the minimum wage, supports on demand abortion, thinks the rich owe more just because they are rich, practices grievance and identity politics, etc.
To show I'm being objective, I think she has some sane ideas on lowering the cost of college tuition and healthcare.
Like I said, I find both candidates, and for that matter, both political parties, to be offensive. I just generally find Republican less offensive.
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(set 26 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
I can't vote for someone who wants open boarders, wants to amnesty all or most illegal aliens, takes the positions she does on gun issues, wants to pass even more regulations on small business, wants to raise the minimum wage, supports on demand abortion, thinks the rich owe more just because they are rich, practices grievance and identity politics, etc.
To show I'm being objective, I think she has some sane ideas on lowering the cost of college tuition and healthcare.
Like I said, I find both candidates, and for that matter, both political parties, to be offensive. I just generally find Republican less offensive.
The buzz terms in your post pretty much end any attempt at objectivity.
I have no idea what the term "abortion on demand" means to you, but to me, it means that the individual in question believes in abortions as a form of birth control. Hillary Clinton in no way believes that.
Amnesty, to me, means that you would grant citizenship to all . Hillary has never said that.
Open borders actually means, open borders, something Hillary also has never said.
You and I have had the discussion on guns before. You dont actually disagree with Democrats on guns, you simply dont trust them to keep their word. You always argue the slippery slop.
Not really sure what regulations you mean when it comes to small business , could you elaborate ???
As for the rich paying more, that is something we have always done, it isnt new.
The term "identity" politics baffles me, not because I dont get its meaning, but because by its meaning, people of all ideologies and parties practice it. I doint get why people have a problem with Democrats doing it with unions or poor people when Republicans do it with gun groups or evangelicals.
I have no idea what the term "abortion on demand" means to you, but to means that the individual in question believes in abortions as a form of birth control. Hillary Clinton in no way believes that.
At what point in a pregnancy would Clinton no longer support a woman's right to have an abortion? As best I can tell, there is no time before the actual birth of the child that Hillary thinks an abortion would be wrong. I believe she was asked about this once, and waffled, as usual.
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Amnesty, to me, means that you would grant citizenship to all . Hillary has never said that.
What's her plan for the estimated 11-12 million individuals who violated our laws and sovereignty by crossing our border and are now residing here illegally? Best I can tell, her answer is a path to citizenship. That's unacceptable, in my opinion.
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Open borders actually means, open borders, something Hillary also has never said.
Point me in the direction to her plan for securing the border? I've never heard it. All I can remember her saying is that we need to build bridges, not walls.
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You and I have had the discussion on guns before. You dont actually disagree with Democrats on guns, you simply dont trust them to keep their word. You always argue the slippery slop.
That's because on guns, it's never enough for Democrats, they have proven this over and over and over again, but that's neither here nor there, we've had this debate before. Just her position on the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is enough to knock her out of contention on the gun issue for me, and her dishonest portrayal of what that law actually does.
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Not really sure what regulations you mean when it comes to small business , could you elaborate ???
Things like raising the minimum wage, paid maternity leave, etc. have a negative impact on small and vulnerable businesses, and on the least skilled workers, and make it harder to actually get a business off the ground.
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As for the rich paying more, that is something we have always done, it isnt new.
Doesn't make it right. In an ideal world, we'd have a flat tax for all. But it's not even that, it's the mentality that because someone is rich, they owe it to society to give even more, that I find objectionable.
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The term "identity" politics baffles me, not because I dont get its meaning, but because by its meaning, people of all ideologies and parties practice it. I doint get why people have a problem with Democrats doing it with unions or poor people when Republicans do it with gun groups or evangelicals.
Like I said, I find both parties offensive. I don't like it when either party plays the identity card. I think true equality is treating everyone truly equal because in the end we all want the same things out of life, and so that's why I think it's so wrong when either party panders to a specific demographic based on the color of their skin, or their gender, etc.
Now, as much as I dislike her "current" position on all these issues, you can pinpoint a time in her career when she had taken the opposite view on many of them ( as recently as 8 years ago ) which is a criticism in and of itself. She's a waffler, a fake, and a fraud who will say anything depending on which direction the social winds are blowing, just like Trump.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 05-17-2016 at 02:54 AM..
Status:
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(set 26 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,571 posts, read 16,556,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
At what point in a pregnancy would Clinton no longer support a woman's right to have an abortion? As best I can tell, there is no time before the actual birth of the child that Hillary thinks an abortion would be wrong. I believe she was asked about this once, and waffled, as usual.
It was Sanders who argued that the government should not put limitations on abortion because it is a decision that should solely be between a women and her doctor, not Clinton.
What Clinton said was that she did not support an outright ban on late term abortions that did not have an exemption for the life of the mother. SHe has also stated that she supports the 24 week cut off.
Her positions are pretty clear on this issue.
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What's her plan for the estimated 11-12 million individuals who violated our laws and sovereignty by crossing our border and are now residing here illegally? Best I can tell, her answer is a path to citizenship. That's unacceptable, in my opinion.
You are right on this one. She has not specifically put forth a plan, But neither has any other candidate for as long as I have been following politics and that includes Donald Trump who admitted it wasnt realistic to round them up.
This is not to deflect from her having a plan, but to specifically mention that if this is your tipping point, it is invalid.
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Point me in the direction to her plan for securing the border? I've never heard it. All I can remember her saying is that we need to build bridges, not walls.
Her argument is that the boarder is secure. Deportations are up while net immigration from Mexico is down.
President Obama without any fan fair has been adding to the number of border patrol agents sense he got there. as well as building up the border fence we already have. She will continue his policy which has actually been working.
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That's because on guns, it's never enough for Democrats, they have proven this over and over and over again, but that's neither here nor there, we've had this debate before. Just her position on the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is enough to knock her out of contention on the gun issue for me, and her dishonest portrayal of what that law actually does.
Which is why we agree to disagree.
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Things like raising the minimum wage, paid maternity leave, etc. have a negative impact on small and vulnerable businesses, and on the least skilled workers, and make it harder to actually get a business off the ground.
Paid(key work) Maternity leave in this country is a choice made by the company. So im not sure how you can make such a claim.
Minimum wage is a different story, and far more complicated as the cost of labor(or rather the time spend doing labor for the individual) needs to be worth the employees time.
Also, Trump supports a higher minimum wage.
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Doesn't make it right. In an ideal world, we'd have a flat tax for all. But it's not even that, it's the mentality that because someone is rich, they owe it to society to give even more, that I find objectionable.
A proportional flat tax is still making the rich pay more based on them having more money. But if you mean an actual flat tax amount, then you are making a very flawed argument.
someone making 25 million a year should not pay the same in taxes as someone making 25,000. That kind of flat tax would bankrupt the government over night.
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Like I said, I find both parties offensive. I don't like it when either party plays the identity card. I think true equality is treating everyone truly equal because in the end we all want the same things out of life, and so that's why I think it's so wrong when either party panders to a specific demographic based on the color of their skin, or their gender, etc.
That argument works in a world where everyone is equal, we dont live in that world ......yet.
The needs of the coal miner in west virginia are not the same as the banker in New York. That is the reality we live in and it needs to be addressed.
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Now, as much as I dislike her "current" position on all these issues, you can pinpoint a time in her career when she had taken the opposite view on many of them ( as recently as 8 years ago ) which is a criticism in and of itself. She's a waffler, a fake, and a fraud who will say anything depending on which direction the social winds are blowing, just like Trump.
I disagree that Clinton took the opposite view on any of these issues.
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