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I don't think it's emotional to say that Trumps temperament is not Presidential. I guess I could go through the Republican debates and every news conference and add up how many times and how many different people he's insulted or ridiculed, but why bother? It's obvious to any objective person. His first inclination is to insult people and brag. That's not Presidential temperament or someone I want standing as a symbol for my country. Regardless of Hillary's dishonesty, he cannot be allowed to hold the highest elected office in the land. It would be a national embarrassment.
This is the position of many people I think. I would say the majority of Clinton supporters reached their "lesser of two evils" decision this way. It is still important to study both of these candidates and get an understanding of their positions - because it looks like this is going to be a close election. We could end up with either of them in the White House.
I know this is probably hopeless, but I'd like to see a rational, evidence-based discussion of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. I'm not a mod, so I can't really enforce any rules in this thread, but for what it's worth I will ask: Please, if you make any claim for or against either candidate, please, please, please include some rational argument, evidence, or at least a reference to some article that clearly offers this rational argumentation/evidence. It is outrageously easy to assert claims and vent one's emotions, but generally a lot harder to back up claims with rational/evidence-based arguments. I'm specifically looking for the BEST arguments/evidence for/against these two candidates.
To get the ball rolling, I think this article favoring Clinton is a good example of someone who is backing up their claims. I'd like to see similarly thoughtful discussions for/against each candidate, if possible.
This request is much like trying to change the spots on a dog...
Immediately the thread gets trashed with exactly the opposite of what is requested, unsubstantiated accusations and opinion that more than anything simply demonstrate how little people bother to actually know the truth of these matters.
I've read how good judgement is considered perhaps the most important characteristic for a POTUS (and started another thread with an article about that some time ago). Evidence of good judgement is rarely found in these threads no matter how many times you ask please.
As the article explains (for those who can't even bring themselves to read the article)...
"Indeed, for a surprisingly large percentage of the electorate, the claim that Hillary is innately dishonest is simply accepted as a given. It is an accusation and conviction so ingrained in the conversation about her that any attempt to even question it is often met with shock. And yet here’s the thing: it’s not actually true. Politifact, the Pulitzer prize-winning fact-checking project, determined for example that Hillary was actually the most truthful candidate (of either Party) in the 2016 election season. And in general Politifact has determined that Hillary is more honest than most (but not all) politicians they have tracked over the years.
Also instructive is Jill Abramson’s recent piece in the Guardian. Abramson, a former reporter for the Wall Street Journal as well as former Executive Editor of the New York Times, had this to say about Hillary’s honesty: “As an editor I’ve launched investigations into her business dealings, her fundraising, her foundation and her marriage. As a reporter my stories stretch back to Whitewater. I’m not a favorite in Hillaryland. That makes what I want to say next surprising. Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy.” "
Reminds me of a quote I've often sited in these threads for these reasons...
“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
[Commencement Address at Yale University, June 11 1962]” ―*John F. Kennedy
This request is much like trying to change the spots on a dog...
Immediately the thread gets trashed with exactly the opposite of what is requested, unsubstantiated accusations and opinion that more than anything simply demonstrate how little people bother to actually know the truth of these matters.
I've read how good judgement is considered perhaps the most important characteristic for a POTUS (and started another thread with an article about that some time ago). Evidence of good judgement is rarely found in these threads no matter how many times you ask please.
As the article explains (for those who can't even bring themselves to read the article)...
"Indeed, for a surprisingly large percentage of the electorate, the claim that Hillary is innately dishonest is simply accepted as a given. It is an accusation and conviction so ingrained in the conversation about her that any attempt to even question it is often met with shock. And yet here’s the thing: it’s not actually true. Politifact, the Pulitzer prize-winning fact-checking project, determined for example that Hillary was actually the most truthful candidate (of either Party) in the 2016 election season. And in general Politifact has determined that Hillary is more honest than most (but not all) politicians they have tracked over the years.
Also instructive is Jill Abramson’s recent piece in the Guardian. Abramson, a former reporter for the Wall Street Journal as well as former Executive Editor of the New York Times, had this to say about Hillary’s honesty: “As an editor I’ve launched investigations into her business dealings, her fundraising, her foundation and her marriage. As a reporter my stories stretch back to Whitewater. I’m not a favorite in Hillaryland. That makes what I want to say next surprising. Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy.” "
Reminds me of a quote I've often sited in these threads for these reasons...
“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
[Commencement Address at Yale University, June 11 1962]” ―*John F. Kennedy
So, does that mean Comey and the FBI lied?
Partisans like you couldn't spot a whale in an ice cream shop.
This is the position of many people I think. I would say the majority of Clinton supporters reached their "lesser of two evils" decision this way. It is still important to study both of these candidates and get an understanding of their positions - because it looks like this is going to be a close election. We could end up with either of them in the White House.
Not as long as the electoral college is around...
"In this feverish year, the most recent symptom of distemper is media blather that — based on polling nearly 6 months out — America is on the cusp of electing Donald Trump. Before this conjures the megalomaniacal horror of Trump’s inaugural address, let me offer a consoling reality — that political fun house mirror known as the Electoral College.
We may not love it but, like shingles and pneumonia, this particular college will forever be with us. And so, a spoiler alert. At the end of this piece, I’m revealing who won the presidency in November, right down to the last electoral vote. Faced with a national nervous collapse, it seems unkind to wait."
Trump
Pros- He does not like PC (says it like it is)
He is not a traditional politician (Not owned by anyone)
He seems dedicated to the U.S. (safety, economy, rights, etc.)
History of success
If he flip flops he admits it and explains why.
Cons- Speaks before he thinks
Temperament
Big ideas without thinking through how they will be done.
Clinton
Pros- More focused on environmental issues.
Cons- Typical politician (owned)
Flip flops stories/ideas, does not admit any wrong doing (lying)
Negligent with classified information putting national security at risk
I personally don't care about family issues for either one of them as that has no relevance to the Presidency in my opinion.
Partisans like you couldn't spot a whale in an ice cream shop.
As far as the insults also so common in these threads, yours is not all that bad but of course an insult all the same. Accordingly, I prefer to ignore such comments, but I will say that I also missed spotting how Obama is a black Muslim foreign-born terrorist out to ruin America. I just can't see the obvious that conservatives can see sometimes...
I consider a disgraceful beotch hypocrite that destroyed the character of the women Bill raped, giver of national secrets, compulsive liar, disregard for the lives of diplomats in Libya, made a terrible decision to support invading Iraq, who is inept and not a leader and in no way qualified to be President.
Trump has made some inappropriate comments but he is a breath of fresh air in that he speaks his mind and has the capacity to lead and he's a proven winner in the business world.
Of course it's best to watch the entirety of Comey's announcement.
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