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Old 11-07-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
11,669 posts, read 17,937,475 times
Reputation: 8239

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I am an independent, but I am thoroughly disgusted with Obama and his administration and their ambition to forcefully transform America into a socialist nation.

My question is this: Is it even possible or likely for a Republican to win the white house again?


The following factors make me believe that it is impossible:
  • Rapidly increasing minority population who tends to vote Democratic.
  • People are going to be hooked on Obamacare and not want to reverse these policies once it's active.
  • Obama plans to grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, who will most likely vote Democratic in 2016, if this bill progresses.
  • The Republicans keep making an issue out of things like gay marriage and abortion and it makes them look bad and they lose votes from women and gays.
  • Liberalism is like a disease that's hard to reverse. It seems like more people transition from conservative to liberal than the other way around.
  • States that have been traditionally red are soon going to flip to blue, due to an influx of immigrants, minorities, etc.
  • It's too easy to sell Democratic policies on the people; the "feel good" effect. Words such as "equality" and "fairness" have a mass appeal that Democrats always use, and it resonates well with people, when in reality it's a device to advance their statist agenda.
  • States that have been traditionally red for decades are now locked into blue (New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado, etc.).
What the heck? How can a Republican even ever win again, given these factors? How can we stop moving toward socialism and protect the last remaining large free nation on earth?
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:22 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
Reputation: 2075
Not to be too political but every civilized country on earth has some form of socialism and for good reason. A purely capitalistic society isn’t freedom but exploitation by another name. Monopolies form, companies conclude in ways that hamper competition, and things just run rampantly out of control without some forms of governmental control.
As for the Republican Party it needs to moderate itself.

There may be debate about the amount and degree of social funding but the social contract needs to exist in some form. If anything I think something like universal healthcare(aka medicare for all) could do some good in the economy. It would allow people who are working for insurance to stop working. It would make it easier for people to form small businesses and help us compete with other first world countries.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,212 posts, read 22,344,773 times
Reputation: 23853
I believe the right Republican candidate can win, even if he had to buck his party to do it.

And given the necessity of the right candidate being a strong candidate who has the forcefulness of personality to dominate his party, I think the Republicans would fall in line behind him, even if it was like pulling teeth for them to do it. The GOP wants a win just as much as the Democrats, after all.

If Romney can coalesce his party, as flaky as he was, I think a better guy has a good shot at the Presidency, even if half of his party calls him a RINO.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
11,669 posts, read 17,937,475 times
Reputation: 8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Not to be too political but every civilized country on earth has some form of socialism and for good reason. A purely capitalistic society isn’t freedom but exploitation by another name. Monopolies form, companies conclude in ways that hamper competition, and things just run rampantly out of control without some forms of governmental control.
As for the Republican Party it needs to moderate itself.

There may be debate about the amount and degree of social funding but the social contract needs to exist in some form. If anything I think something like universal healthcare(aka medicare for all) could do some good in the economy. It would allow people who are working for insurance to stop working. It would make it easier for people to form small businesses and help us compete with other first world countries.
Well I agree that pure capitalism isn't good either. But universal healthcare will increase waiting times and let the government ration who receives health care and when. It will also require taking away our earnings in order to benefit the "common good." So, everyone will have health care access, but the quality and expediency of service will likely go down. Also, it will likely inhibit innovations in the medical industry. Plus, it's immoral to have rich people subsidizing health care services for the poor. That's called stealing.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:01 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
Reputation: 2075
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321 View Post
Well I agree that pure capitalism isn't good either. But universal healthcare will increase waiting times and let the government ration who receives health care and when. It will also require taking away our earnings in order to benefit the "common good." So, everyone will have health care access, but the quality and expediency of service will likely go down. Also, it will likely inhibit innovations in the medical industry. Plus, it's immoral to have rich people subsidizing health care services for the poor. That's called stealing.
Ah nope. All other countries that have it pay less for healthcare than we do and private healthcare options sometimes exsit in thoose countries too. It just changes the structure of things a bit. The socal contract is what keeps a middle class in this country otherwise you get a country that is only rich and poor and places like that are not known for stability.

If you want to see revolt let conditions for the poor degrade enough that they would rather bring down the people in charge than work with the system. If you want stability you want to make sure that everyone has a buy in to the system.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:02 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
Reputation: 14345
I don't think the problem is with a Republican candidate nationally. I think the problem the GOP has right now is with the primary process. During the primaries candidates magnify how conservative/liberal they are in order to appeal to the party bases. Right now, the GOP candidates have to appeal to a much more conservative base to win the nomination, and then have to move to the center to actually win the election. That's a delicate process which requires someone to not come off as a liar or hypocrite. The Democrats have it easier, because their base isn't as far from the center right now. But that can change.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:10 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,994,276 times
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Oh and the socialism runs deep even in the good old USA. Fannie May and Freddie Mack are why 15 and 30 year mortgages are the norm in this country before mortgages ran for shorter periods of time and at the end of the mortgage if you couldn’t pay off the remainder or find another mortgage you loss the house.

Medicare and Social Security keep elderly people from being a drain on their families. No medical insurance company in its right mind would insure anyone over 65 at anything like an affordable rate.

Unemployment stabilizes the economy a bit and keeps small layoffs from having huge effects on the local economy.
Food stamps feed people and make other forms of charity more effective. I personally have seen what the average food pantry looks like in my city and even if I kicked every person I thought shouldn’t be on welfare off they wouldn’t be sufficient.

The amounts of these programs and who should be on these is debatable, the need for them is not.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,957 posts, read 8,486,926 times
Reputation: 6777
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321 View Post
Well I agree that pure capitalism isn't good either. But universal healthcare will increase waiting times and let the government ration who receives health care and when. It will also require taking away our earnings in order to benefit the "common good." So, everyone will have health care access, but the quality and expediency of service will likely go down. Also, it will likely inhibit innovations in the medical industry. Plus, it's immoral to have rich people subsidizing health care services for the poor. That's called stealing.
For all of the reasons you listed, it will become increasingly difficult or impossible for a national Republican candidate to win. The Republican party would have to morph into the state it was in during the late 50's- early 60's to regain its credibility. Until the "Republican train" de-couples the "passenger cars" containing the tea party and the right-wing Christian groups and lets them fend for themselves, they're setting the party up to be the "Every 4 Years a Loser Party".

As far as health care goes, most of Western Europe with a single payer system looks at our health care system and thinks "Thank God I don't live there". They live longer and spend less on health care. Some of those socialist-leaning countries that pay much higher taxes than we do are more than happy to do so and their citizens are much more content with their lives than Americans. "Gee, I won't go bankrupt over paying a medical bill and I probably am less likely to be shot in Copenhagen than Dallas". "What's not to like?"
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:33 PM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,274,165 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321 View Post
I am thoroughly disgusted with Obama and his administration and their ambition to forcefully transform America into a socialist nation.
Theres the crux of your problem equating social programs as the equivalent of socialism, it would be almost impossible for a modern society to function today without the benefit of social programs, think policing,firemen, public schools, healthcare,medicaid,medicare,social security. the military and hundreds more programs that benefit society as a whole. You seem to be inferring that these social programs are socialism which is akin to communism.
While rightwing media sources are hellbent on painting Obama and everything he does as the end of the world and describe everything in dire apocalyptic terms like "socialism" the fact is most of the voting public dont see it that way and look at Obama as just another President trying the best he can to please Americans.
If the right loses its current extremist attitude propped up by the tea party they have a very good chance of regaining the White House.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Florida
11,669 posts, read 17,937,475 times
Reputation: 8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
For all of the reasons you listed, it will become increasingly difficult or impossible for a national Republican candidate to win. The Republican party would have to morph into the state it was in during the late 50's- early 60's to regain its credibility. Until the "Republican train" de-couples the "passenger cars" containing the tea party and the right-wing Christian groups and lets them fend for themselves, they're setting the party up to be the "Every 4 Years a Loser Party".

As far as health care goes, most of Western Europe with a single payer system looks at our health care system and thinks "Thank God I don't live there". They live longer and spend less on health care. Some of those socialist-leaning countries that pay much higher taxes than we do are more than happy to do so and their citizens are much more content with their lives than Americans. "Gee, I won't go bankrupt over paying a medical bill and I probably am less likely to be shot in Copenhagen than Dallas". "What's not to like?"
The reason why Europeans live longer is because they have a much healthier diet, work less and therefore have less stressful lifestyles. They also do more walking than Americans. I highly doubt it's because of universal health care.
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