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Your right, you called me on it. But my point is to be taken seriously as a party you can't run just any Bozo off the street. Serious people know a third party won't win, so they don't bother and you wind up with some real losers. I would probably vote for these guys regardless, but they look like fools.
That's why I won't commit to voting for the LP candidate at this point... none that I have seen so far have, in my mind, the necessary experience to be the President. That's why it's best to remain independent and not follow a hard party line... pick the best person.
Your right, you called me on it. But my point is to be taken seriously as a party you can't run just any Bozo off the street. Serious people know a third party won't win, so they don't bother and you wind up with some real losers. I would probably vote for these guys regardless, but they look like fools.
You know this kind of hits close to one of my biggest complaints of third parties. They always choose the highest office in the land, they lose and in doing so, they set up a mind set. People then begin to believe that third parties cannot ever win and it makes it increasingly difficult for others more capable to make the attempt.
You are of course absolutely right. It must be taken seriously and by serious individuals with solid views and a viable platform that appeals to a broad base of people. Tossing "bozo's" up in the chance that one might actually score an office is not the way to approach it.
For a viable third party to take hold IMHO, it must come from the local levels.
That independent candidate who gets elected to a city council or county commission. Who gets to the State Legislature / Assembly.
Once there are experienced people at these levels, then, and only then, can we expect to see them "move up" so to speak - to get into Congress, State Houses (Governors) etc.
Your right, you called me on it. But my point is to be taken seriously as a party you can't run just any Bozo off the street. Serious people know a third party won't win, so they don't bother and you wind up with some real losers. I would probably vote for these guys regardless, but they look like fools.
Oh, I know what your saying and it is pretty much the truth. Because people judge matters based on what we were talking about, you have to "play the game" to even have a chance. Its a fact of life, sadly so.
They say we should never judge a book by its cover, but I think this message is lost on a population that has never opened one. *chuckle*
Oh, I know what your saying and it is pretty much the truth. Because people judge matters based on what we were talking about, you have to "play the game" to even have a chance. Its a fact of life, sadly so.
They say we should never judge a book by its cover, but I think this message is lost on a population that has never opened one. *chuckle*
Hahaha, that's a good one! I do see the issue with starting from top-down; I get all kinds of e-mails (from subscriptions) with people talking about gearing up for 2012...like that time will be different from this time somehow.
Maybe a "switcheroo" tactic on the local and state levels would be more effective: Democrats and Republicans already in office and with good approval ratings from their electorates, changing their party affiliation to Independent while in office and then running for re-election (or higher office) that way from then on -- like Joe Lieberman and Mike Bloomberg. Although IMO Lieberman's description of himself as an 'Independent Democrat' is blatant waffling; come on, Joe, cut the umbilical cord already! ;-)
There is no reason to expect that independents will flock around an Independent candidate. First off, the independents are not an actual party, and some people seem to be treating them as they are. I'm an independent, and I know that creating a working third party cannot happen as the result of people calling themselves independents. People are independent for a variety of reasons, ranging from being so uninformed they don't know what the parties mean to being disgusted with the parties.
Also, there is no way you will create a third party due to the opening up of primaries, or making presidential candidates chosen by popular vote. That only reinforces the current two-party system. Change will not come as a result of the two parties, except as the result of one or the other attempting to cause the downfall of the other.
Look at U.S. History. It's almost always been a two-party system, with minor parties often rising and falling alongside, but at least being movements. Furthermore, within each party, there are often factions (Half-breeds & Stalwarts in the Republicans). We're seeing factionalism in both parties right now. McCain's failing is igniting an divide in the Republicans between pro-Romney, pro-Palin, and those who have endorsed Obama. In the Democrats, there's a different divide, between Reid (arguably the weakest Democrat) and Pelosi. There used to be a Dean-Emmanuel divide, but I think that's been overshadowed by Obama's campaign strength that makes the DNC look pathetic. It's conceivable that there could be a three-way power struggle between Pelosi, Reid, and Obama to control the Democrats, unless Pelosi and Reid unite behind Obama rather than attempt to dominate him.
Those divides allow for the rise of new parties. It's that very weakness in the Whig Party which created the Republicans. We forget how small the Republicans began, breaking off chunks of the other political parties, lead by inexperienced but well-timed individuals, that eventually broke the Whigs and became the Elephant it is today. A new third party would have to be similarly small in the beginning.
Take the Populist party under William Jennings Bryan. It was formed out of a grassroots community, and was our greatest chance for the rise of a third party in the country. But what ultimately ended up happening was that the Populists decided to accept the Democratic nomination. And before, when people had been willing to go outside their party to vote for the Populists, they became entrenched. No one votes for their enemy. Thus, even if a new third party is successful enough to make it to the presidential stage, it must also be wary of being tempted into reinforcing the two-party system.
The third party must start small. That's already been said here. It must start at a local level, in the living rooms of America. It means running for municipal office, taking city councils, mayors, taking comptroller.
That's not the beginning though. Because before you run, the third party must first be organized, at a national convention. The party must be defined in such a way that divides it from the other parties. I reject the notion that the parties are the same. Otherwise a third party's rise would be that much simpler.
The delegates from this convention (from all over the states) must then return home to become the organizers of the party, as well as its leaders. Naturally, the regional shifts in the party will have to exist. The third party of Rhode Island cannot be the exact same third party as that of Hawaii. But like the two other parties, the shifts are negligible. Northeastern Republicans are not the same stripe as Southern Republicans, but both are the same beast.
When such a third party has taken control of enough municipalities, it then must concentrate on the state legislatures. Only when you have enough state representatives is is then possible to consider running for Governor of a state. Third parties will naturally have more of advantage capturing the governor in smaller states than larger ones. And I cannot stress this enough, no run for governor must be attempted until the party has decisive control of the state legislature. Thus the party is able to block other the Republicans/Democrats from pushing their agendas without consulting the new party for approval first. This will allow the third party to add changes to the bill to then increase strength for their own policies.
As this happens, it is now possible for the party to attempt to take control of the national legislature. Senior members of the party will be tapped to run for House Rep or Senate. The party must vote together, eat together, work together. If it is only a small party delegation which reaches the House or Senate, it must not give in to the Populist temptation of aligning with the Republicans or Democrats. It must work to build its strength.
Only when decisive control of the Senate and House has been taken (or else a roughly even split between the three parties) has been established is a run for President considerable. There must not be a run for President before then. The Green Party is a joke because of the sheer number of times the Party has failed to take the presidency, or even register above 5%. It is only viable when the party is nationally recognized and given as much press attention as the other two parties.
During the presidential elections when the party is actively gaining strength it must be extremely protective of its voters, that they are not poached by one party or the other. Even not voting for president would be preferrable to watching a majority of the party vote for one president or the other, thereby killing the party by an inadvertant Populist temptation.
The new party must be a pan-American movement, not simply a regional one. It will also require a savvy media presence, to prevent the party from being publicly undermined by the less objective members of the press. This means working to create its own party-controlled media. It also requires something that is extremely lacking in American politics these days; statecraft.
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