Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:33 AM
 
Location: In an indoor space
7,685 posts, read 6,197,456 times
Reputation: 5154

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
The campaign of Donald Trump has explored brand new territory here in 2016. This election will be the ultimate test of whether our little American experiment in freedom will survive into the future, or whether it will die an untimely death, as has been experienced throughout history with other adventures in democracy.

Why is Donald Trump so different and why is he so dangerous? This is not complicated, it really comes to down to values. Either you value the concept of democracy, or you don't. Either you value fair and free elections or you don't. Either you value the freedom of speech and of the press, or you don't. Either you align yourself with the champions of freedom and democracy or you align yourself with autocrats and demagogues.

Donald Trump has shown us that he values none of the above. He values only one thing - winning this election, at any cost. He has shown us that he will happily partner with one of the most detested and feared leaders in modern times, Vladimir Putin, if that is an advantage to him. He has shown us that he will not hesitate to use information gleaned from enemy espionage in order to influence an American election. He has repeatedly made false and inflammatory statements regarding the integrity of the American election system in order to cast doubt on the outcome. He has shown no hesitation to use his great wealth to stifle speech by instituting lawsuits against those that dare oppose him.

It becomes clear that Donald Trump, deep down, detests the very concept of the American system of democracy - for one simple reason. He can't control it. We know from looking at Trump's history that he will overwhelm or destroy that which he cannot control. Trump understands clearly that if this election proceeds in a legitimate manner, that he will undoubtedly lose. Therefore he will use any and all tactics to win - even if it requires inflicting lasting damage to America's democratic institutions.

The puzzling thing about all of this is why the Trump supporters continue to follow him down this path of destruction. A recent poll suggested that 43% of Trump supporters believe that the election will be "rigged". We have to face the reality is that those followers and Donald Trump have one thing in common. Deep down, they also hate the American system of free elections and free speech and they share Trump's zeal to undermine them. They are screaming for change, and by God they will have it at any cost. Even if it means that they end up under the thumb of a sociopathic wanna-be dictator.



for even suggesting what you do.

 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:35 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
I've never really gotten where this feeling of "The government is corrupt" comes from. China may have a corrupt government, Russia may have a corrupt government, North Korea may have a corrupt government, but America still has one of the most open, transparent, people driven governments on this planet.

Are we perfect ? No, there is always room for improvement in anything. But the people who think all of the Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents somehow sit around in smoke filled rooms, plotting things for their own agenda, is simply not right. I believe that the people we send to Washington are simply like you and me.......not perfect, but not out to screw us either.

Some people must have really screwed up lives, or views of how things are in America, to feel the way they do. All I can say is, thank God this is where I was born and where I live. People have NO IDEA how good we all have it here, maybe because we have never experienced what other people in the world live like. Hillary said it best when she said " He says he will make America Great Again, but it has always been great, and good."

Amen.


Don
Good post, Don. I can't disagree with any of that. In general most of our elected representatives serve us well. I will say that we need some correction to the way that $$ are now able to influence our legislators and elections (Citizens United for example). But at the end of the day we are very, very lucky to live in America. It IS great and will continue to be great for a long time no matter what Donald Trump wants us to believe.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:36 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol-its-good4U View Post


for even suggesting what you do.
So you agree with me then? If not please present your rationale.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:37 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 864,120 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
The campaign of Donald Trump has explored brand new territory here in 2016. This election will be the ultimate test of whether our little American experiment in freedom will survive into the future, or whether it will die an untimely death, as has been experienced throughout history with other adventures in democracy.

Why is Donald Trump so different and why is he so dangerous? This is not complicated, it really comes to down to values. Either you value the concept of democracy, or you don't. Either you value fair and free elections or you don't. Either you value the freedom of speech and of the press, or you don't. Either you align yourself with the champions of freedom and democracy or you align yourself with autocrats and demagogues.

Donald Trump has shown us that he values none of the above. He values only one thing - winning this election, at any cost. He has shown us that he will happily partner with one of the most detested and feared leaders in modern times, Vladimir Putin, if that is an advantage to him. He has shown us that he will not hesitate to use information gleaned from enemy espionage in order to influence an American election. He has repeatedly made false and inflammatory statements regarding the integrity of the American election system in order to cast doubt on the outcome. He has shown no hesitation to use his great wealth to stifle speech by instituting lawsuits against those that dare oppose him.

It becomes clear that Donald Trump, deep down, detests the very concept of the American system of democracy - for one simple reason. He can't control it. We know from looking at Trump's history that he will overwhelm or destroy that which he cannot control. Trump understands clearly that if this election proceeds in a legitimate manner, that he will undoubtedly lose. Therefore he will use any and all tactics to win - even if it requires inflicting lasting damage to America's democratic institutions.

The puzzling thing about all of this is why the Trump supporters continue to follow him down this path of destruction. A recent poll suggested that 43% of Trump supporters believe that the election will be "rigged". We have to face the reality is that those followers and Donald Trump have one thing in common. Deep down, they also hate the American system of free elections and free speech and they share Trump's zeal to undermine them. They are screaming for change, and by God they will have it at any cost. Even if it means that they end up under the thumb of a sociopathic wanna-be dictator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y9oVC-mGW8


Even Obama disagrees with you, Russia is no geopolitical threat.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:42 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1grin_g0 View Post
Even Obama disagrees with you, Russia is no geopolitical threat.
What's that got to do with the original post about Trump's unAmerican values? Why would I care about Obama's view on Russia?
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:42 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,196,139 times
Reputation: 23898
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
The campaign of Donald Trump has explored brand new territory here in 2016. This election will be the ultimate test of whether our little American experiment in freedom will survive into the future, or whether it will die an untimely death, as has been experienced throughout history with other adventures in democracy.

Why is Donald Trump so different and why is he so dangerous? This is not complicated, it really comes to down to values. Either you value the concept of democracy, or you don't. Either you value fair and free elections or you don't. Either you value the freedom of speech and of the press, or you don't. Either you align yourself with the champions of freedom and democracy or you align yourself with autocrats and demagogues.

Donald Trump has shown us that he values none of the above. He values only one thing - winning this election, at any cost. He has shown us that he will happily partner with one of the most detested and feared leaders in modern times, Vladimir Putin, if that is an advantage to him. He has shown us that he will not hesitate to use information gleaned from enemy espionage in order to influence an American election. He has repeatedly made false and inflammatory statements regarding the integrity of the American election system in order to cast doubt on the outcome. He has shown no hesitation to use his great wealth to stifle speech by instituting lawsuits against those that dare oppose him.

It becomes clear that Donald Trump, deep down, detests the very concept of the American system of democracy - for one simple reason. He can't control it. We know from looking at Trump's history that he will overwhelm or destroy that which he cannot control. Trump understands clearly that if this election proceeds in a legitimate manner, that he will undoubtedly lose. Therefore he will use any and all tactics to win - even if it requires inflicting lasting damage to America's democratic institutions.

The puzzling thing about all of this is why the Trump supporters continue to follow him down this path of destruction. A recent poll suggested that 43% of Trump supporters believe that the election will be "rigged". We have to face the reality is that those followers and Donald Trump have one thing in common. Deep down, they also hate the American system of free elections and free speech and they share Trump's zeal to undermine them. They are screaming for change, and by God they will have it at any cost. Even if it means that they end up under the thumb of a sociopathic wanna-be dictator.
What are you talking about? Do you even understand the concept of representative republic that operates in this country?

Your points bolied down...

Trump does not value democracy. What does that mean in real terms?

Trump aligns with Putin. What does that have to do with democracy? The Clinton Foundation facilitated the sale of uranium to Russia. You're OK with that?

Trump hates free speech and free elections. Examples?

I won't even address what the Clinton camp does to hack the election... yet.

--------

Question... without mentioning Trump - why is Clinton good for America?
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:42 AM
 
7,275 posts, read 5,286,513 times
Reputation: 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
It's a fair point. No question there is corruption at all levels of Federal and State government - we've known this for decades. Maybe we have more visibility into that now. Where I disagree with you is about Donald Trump's motivations. I don't think he give a rat's a$$ about cleaning up the corruption, that's just another talking point he uses to fire up his supporters. I think he would happily institute new forms of corruption if that would help to feather his nest. The idea that he's going to actually FIX any of these corrupt practices is a fantasy.
It's difficult to look at a businessman like Trump and believe he would be into anything for other than himself, for that I agree. But I could also believe that in dealing with multiple bankruptcies while building a business empire, having to deal with government at every turn in his life, maybe at his age he feels he can affect change that has affected him in the past. I just cannot believe someone would take steps to be president just to benefit himself. I may be wrong, but those thoughts to me would come from a 100% Hillary supporter.

Of course I will never know his true motives for this presidential run. But I do know that historically, whether he wins or not, he has probably been the most important candidate in the modern era to speak to those for decades or more who have been clamouring for change. No one before him has ever spoken like he has. He has not put on a political face (which I believe is generally a false face) and surprises people with his approach.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:44 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 864,120 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
What's that got to do with the original post about Trump's unAmerican values? Why would I care about Obama's view on Russia?
So you trust Clinton to handle Russia, when she was Obama's chief advisor on foreign affairs? Russian reset ring a bell?
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:49 AM
 
7,275 posts, read 5,286,513 times
Reputation: 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
I've never really gotten where this feeling of "The government is corrupt" comes from. China may have a corrupt government, Russia may have a corrupt government, North Korea may have a corrupt government, but America still has one of the most open, transparent, people driven governments on this planet.

Are we perfect ? No, there is always room for improvement in anything. But the people who think all of the Senators, Congressmen, and Presidents somehow sit around in smoke filled rooms, plotting things for their own agenda, is simply not right. I believe that the people we send to Washington are simply like you and me.......not perfect, but not out to screw us either.

Some people must have really screwed up lives, or views of how things are in America, to feel the way they do. All I can say is, thank God this is where I was born and where I live. People have NO IDEA how good we all have it here, maybe because we have never experienced what other people in the world live like. Hillary said it best when she said " He says he will make America Great Again, but it has always been great, and good."

Amen.


Don
The USA great compared to the rest of the world - I agree 100% and am glad I was born and live here. Everyone in government corrupt? That's not the point. It's not the individuals that the word corrupt is attached to, it's the system. I don't see this as a movie where a bunch of people sit around a table conspiring how to screw A and B. But it's my right as an American to look at the system and what it has presented to me, without regards to how the rest of the world is. That's mutually exclusive. As a CPA, I have seen too much whacky things just in the microcosm of the Internal Revenue Code. I have watched businesses leave this country because benefits that kept them viable were taken away. I have seen how much Obamacare has cost unsuspecting individuals. I firmly believe that there are decisions made in government that although not a direct and purposeful corruption are corrupt because of special interests. The amount of money that flows in and out of government is incredible.

We may have a more transparent government than any other in the world, but if you blindly believe you can sit back in your chair and trust the government and think they are transparent to you, I just think you are sadly mistaken.
 
Old 10-28-2016, 07:50 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
It's difficult to look at a businessman like Trump and believe he would be into anything for other than himself, for that I agree. But I could also believe that in dealing with multiple bankruptcies while building a business empire, having to deal with government at every turn in his life, maybe at his age he feels he can affect change that has affected him in the past. I just cannot believe someone would take steps to be president just to benefit himself. I may be wrong, but those thoughts to me would come from a 100% Hillary supporter.

Of course I will never know his true motives for this presidential run. But I do know that historically, whether he wins or not, he has probably been the most important candidate in the modern era to speak to those for decades or more who have been clamouring for change. No one before him has ever spoken like he has. He has not put on a political face (which I believe is generally a false face) and surprises people with his approach.
I spent a lot of time studying Donald Trump, I have read everything I could get my hands on about him and by him. I think I have a pretty good knowledge of his influences and his belief system. My assessment after looking at all that is that he is the ultimate narcissist; and that he never pursues anything that will not benefit him in the end. He appears to be a man devoid of compassion and has no patience or tolerance for anyone that opposes him. That's why I would never trust him as POTUS.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top