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I have been seeing an Obama ad playing here in Michigan lately. I don't know if the rest of the country is seeing it. In it a middle-aged woman with a southern accent tells us that the company she has worked for for a number of years has been paying female employees less than male employees for doing essentially the same work. Personally having worked in the south when I was very young, I can, at least in my case, verify that it does occur. In 1985 I had moved to Brandon FL. I already had some experience in the restaurant business, so I applied for work at some of the restaurants on town. When I interviewed at Sonny's BBQ, I explained to the GM that I had some experience in the business, my schedule had no restrictions and I was willing to work overtime. He told me that the wage I was seeking was more than that at which new employees generally started. I assured him that if he could offer me just part of what I asked for and liberal overtime (he had lots of that to offer because not all the employees wanted it.) that he wouldn't regret his decision. He agreed. I had two female supervisors over me when I started. One day, since we had all just received our paychecks, I hitched a ride to the bank with my supervisor. We both went through the drive through together. I signed my check and handed it to my supervisor to give to the teller. But before handing it to the teller, she stopped and read it. I don't know if I have ever seen a person more angry. Once she realized that I, her subordinate, was being paid more per hour than she was, she hit the celing. I certainly understand why she was furious, but I am concerned that if wages are required to be set solely according to the type of work being done in order to prevent females from being paid less, that I will loose my ability to negotiate on my own behalf. Furthermore, how will I negotiate a raise if my wages are somehow legally tie to those of every female performing similar work. How can I get ahead if I can't work harder than my coworkers in order to earn a raise? How will anyone's wages increase if they are somehow bound to the lowest common denominator? Won't this cause income stagnation for every one? Won't this "man tax" simply encourage company's to do business elsewhere like China and India? How can companies compete for the very best employees if everyone has to be paid the same?
This is a common argument from right wingers. Government regulations cause jobs to go overseas.
Fine.
Then please explain why there are scores of European countries that have much much more regulations, higher taxes, a higher standard of living, and universal healthcare for all their citizens????
In regards to the ad. This is the law in question. Equal Pay Act (http://www.eeoc.gov/types/epa.html - broken link)
It's equal pay for equal work. It's not equal pay for the sexes.
Will it raise wages for women in some cases? Yes.
But overall it's a very minor cost issue for business of whom 95% of them are in compliance already.
...I am concerned that if wages are required to be set solely according to the type of work being done in order to prevent females from being paid less, that I will loose my ability to negotiate on my own behalf. Furthermore, how will I negotiate a raise if my wages are somehow legally tie to those of every female performing similar work. How can I get ahead if I can't work harder than my coworkers in order to earn a raise? How will anyone's wages increase if they are somehow bound to the lowest common denominator? Won't this cause income stagnation for every one? Won't this "man tax" simply encourage company's to do business elsewhere like China and India? How can companies compete for the very best employees if everyone has to be paid the same?
This is an excellent point, and you are absolutely correct in your assesment; but this is who the Democrats are.
Democrats today are for the most part socialists. Obama is a socialist (as well as a Marxist). "Fairness" to a Democrat is "equal pay for equal work" regardless of any other factors.
This is basically what you have in the Unions. Everyone gets the same pay for their level, regardless of their abilities or other factors.
This kind of system discourages achievement, and self improvement. It is a demotivator.
This is basically what you have in the Unions. Everyone gets the same pay for their level, regardless of their abilities or other factors.
This kind of system discourages achievement, and self improvement. It is a demotivator.
I have not read the Equal Pay Act, nor am I offering an opinion on political 'sides'. I am addressing your comment about unions.
I do not know how other unions operate, but the union I belong to is not as static as you portray. There is a wage scale depending on skill and time of service. But, in all fairness, it represents the bottom of the scale. I am currently earning much more that 'scale'... due to achievement and self improvement. And as long as I keep motivated and do my job well, I anticipate earning even more. Just like everyone else, union members or not. If the bottom were to drop out of the economy, and my current employer closed their doors, because of my tenure in the union I will have the ability to move anywhere in this country and at the very least start right off at a decent wage. I live in the "deep south", where the strength of the unions are weak at best. If I was forced to move north, say to your neck of the woods, I would find myself earning more money at the bottom base than I currently am (well above the bottom of the scale in this region).
The point is, I was never a fan of the unions. I still do not like some of the things that organized labor represents. But to paint a broad stroke picture of unmotivated, underachieving union workers is just not fair.
I have not read the Equal Pay Act, nor am I offering an opinion on political 'sides'. I am addressing your comment about unions.
I do not know how other unions operate, but the union I belong to is not as static as you portray. There is a wage scale depending on skill and time of service. But, in all fairness, it represents the bottom of the scale. I am currently earning much more that 'scale'... due to achievement and self improvement. And as long as I keep motivated and do my job well, I anticipate earning even more. Just like everyone else, union members or not. If the bottom were to drop out of the economy, and my current employer closed their doors, because of my tenure in the union I will have the ability to move anywhere in this country and at the very least start right off at a decent wage. I live in the "deep south", where the strength of the unions are weak at best. If I was forced to move north, say to your neck of the woods, I would find myself earning more money at the bottom base than I currently am (well above the bottom of the scale in this region).
The point is, I was never a fan of the unions. I still do not like some of the things that organized labor represents. But to paint a broad stroke picture of unmotivated, underachieving union workers is just not fair.
Would it also be fair to say that your union wages already pay women the same as men for their craft and seniority?
The thread starter here is making the claim that this would be burden to business. I'm trying to find a business that this would effect since he/she is unable to cite an example .
Last edited by padcrasher; 09-28-2008 at 05:25 AM..
So what exactly is wrong with equal pay for equal work? I don't get it.
Are we going to remove all regulations to allow employers to exploit Americans the way they might go overseas and exploit the Chinese or Indians? Is that any better? Deregulating everything and turning the whole business world into the wild west isn't always the answer. It sure wasn't with the banking and housing systems. We're finding that out to the tune of $700 billion.
Would it also be fair to say that your union wages already pay women the same as men for their craft and seniority?
The thread starter here is making the claim that this would be burden to business.
That is a very good question... I wish I could answer it honestly. I work in a field that is, for all practical purposes, void of women. Why this is the case is beyond me (no extreme physical requirements). I personally think women would excel in my line of work, but in 16 years I have yet to see it. Its strange, now that I think about it.
I certainly did not mean to get off topic. I cannot debate the OP's opinion directly. I can say, however, that it has been my experience that wholesale comments and opinions usually are formed from a narrow stance.
So what exactly is wrong with equal pay for equal work? I don't get it.
In my opinion, the point that is trying to be made here is that setting a scale will reduce productivity. Once again, in my opinion, I think we are all very much individuals, with varying amounts of skill and productivity. Lets face it, certain people excel at certain things. Not based on gender or race. Perhaps it is based in motivation, drive, goals... whatever. But it is different in each of us.
So you're not disagreeing with the idea that a male worker and a female worker with roughly equal abilities and work ethic should not be paid roughly equal wages? Should nothing be done to stop employers from discriminating and not doing so, whether out of some prejudice or simply trying to save a little money and fatten the bottom line?
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The "Equal Pay" Scam
