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Old 02-04-2014, 02:11 PM
 
146 posts, read 189,379 times
Reputation: 169

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
As being in the unfortunate situation of being a neighboring country of the Big Bear, I consider ourselves experts on Russia. Saying that, we've been Novgorod's/Muscowy's/Russia's/USSR's/Russia's neighbor for a 1000 years, and we still don't really know or understand them.

And I haven't got anything against Russia or its culture, not saying that, but especially in Russia's border countries the label 'east' has mostly meant something negative and undesirable.
I suggest you go back to your "great" school, and learn something about your neighbor before posting nonsense - Russia gave freedom to your country when it was agrarian province with heavy drinkers residing on it (that hasn't changed).
Obviously heavy drinkers have difficult time understanding one of the greatest country on earth which gave world Tschaikovsky, Dostoevsky, Mendeleev, Bolshoi Ballet etc.
Unlike West we did not "oppress" anybody, but rather assimilate. Look what West have done to Yugoslavia - it's plan vanilla genocide, Russia has nothing like that in its 2000 year history.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,792,350 times
Reputation: 11103
Point proven, right?

Alexander I gave us freedom as a dominion, he just happened to be Czar of Russia. The rest of the nation didn't want to give us anything, as we saw in the Rape of Ostrobothnia first and the Russian Oppression later.

BTW, the bust of Alexander I still stands on the steps of the University of Helsinki thanks to his kindness:


The statue of Alexander II stands on the most valuable spot in Helsinki, the only city besides Sofia that has one left (your country teared them all down):

Last edited by Ariete; 02-04-2014 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:27 PM
 
146 posts, read 189,379 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Point proven, right?

Alexander I gave us freedom as a dominion, he just happened to be Czar of Russia. The rest of the nation didn't want to give us anything, as we saw in the Rape of Ostrobothnia first and the Russian Oppression later.

BTW, the bust of Alexander I still stands on the steps of the University of Helsinki thanks to his kindness:


The statue of Alexander II stands on the most valuable spot in Helsinki, the only city besides Sofia that has one left (your country teared them all down):
That's "oppression"?? Russia wanted Finns to learn Russian as this was official language of the empire. When Finns rejected they got their idependence back.
I wish West oppressed Yugoslavia that much instead of killing thousands of children and elderly and destroying the economy and life of millions of people.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,792,350 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberal8 View Post
That's "oppression"?? Russia wanted Finns to learn Russian as this was official language of the empire. When Finns rejected they got their idependence back.
I wish West oppressed Yugoslavia that much instead of killing thousands of children and elderly and destroying the economy and life of millions of people.
It's called independence these days? Revoking all privileges, the Finnish currency, postal and customs services and the effort to "Russify" the country? Yeah, we were so grateful for your liberation that we shot the General Governor and started a general strike.

And you didn't give us independence, we took it as you were so busy losing WWI against Germany.

You did build us railways and fueled the industrial revolution, I'll give you that.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:41 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,614,742 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Obviously heavy drinkers have difficult time understanding one of the greatest country on earth which gave world Tschaikovsky, Dostoevsky, Mendeleev, Bolshoi Ballet etc.
Unlike West we did not "oppress" anybody, but rather assimilate. Look what West have done to Yugoslavia - it's plan vanilla genocide, Russia has nothing like that in its 2000 year history.
I thank you for those artists. Yes exceptional. But I'd have to raise my eyebrows on the not 'oppressing' anybody. Just a personal opinion but the USSR's forays in those West of them arguably set back culture and progress in those states by centuries. Those countries getting a 'visit' from Uncle Joe and the rest are still paying for it.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Estonia
1,704 posts, read 1,836,562 times
Reputation: 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by liberal8 View Post
I suggest you go back to your "great" school, and learn something about your neighbor before posting nonsense - Russia gave freedom to your country when it was agrarian province with heavy drinkers residing on it (that hasn't changed).
Obviously heavy drinkers have difficult time understanding one of the greatest country on earth which gave world Tschaikovsky, Dostoevsky, Mendeleev, Bolshoi Ballet etc.
Unlike West we did not "oppress" anybody, but rather assimilate. Look what West have done to Yugoslavia - it's plan vanilla genocide, Russia has nothing like that in its 2000 year history.
Oh the Liberator has arrived! Does he bring any gifts? Hopefully not an excursion to the Siberian Gulags
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:05 PM
 
58 posts, read 94,702 times
Reputation: 78
Yes, sure Russians were so peaceful "assimilating" other countries. That's why your average citizen from Estonia, Latvia (ethnic Latvians), Lithuania, Ukraine (esp. Western Ukraine), Moldova (esp. Romanian-Moldovans), and other former Soviet Union countries don't want to be associated with Russia in any conceivable way.

Russians weren't that bad though. There were crueler assimilators as the Spanish and the British. And many countries have always had an inferiority complex to their large neighbour/s.

I think history was written to suit a few and bash their enemies. And because of the recent (not-so-recent) rivalry between the West and the former Communist countries in "Eastern Europe", these are seen still in a bad light.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:28 PM
 
26,773 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuuKulgur View Post
I also watched it and indeed, Russians have taken corruption to the next level.
The only two questions that I have to ask - why was the West ( the US to be exact) promoting this corruption back in the nineties ( they couldn't NOT to know what they were doing, while their economists were sitting in Kremlin,) and the next question - knowing the level of corruption in Russian government, why the heck would anyone accepted Putins' bid for such odd place as subtropical Sochi?
One hand washes another hand as they say, or what's the deal here?

Last edited by erasure; 02-04-2014 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,792,350 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
The only two questions that I have to ask - why was the West ( the US to be exact) promoting this corruption back in the nineties ( they couldn't NOT to know what they were doing, while their economists were sitting in Kremlin,) and the next question - knowing the level of corruption in Russian government, why the heck would anyone anyone accepted Putins' bid for such odd place as subtropical Sochi?
One hand washes another hand as they say, or what's the deal here?
You're not asking me, but I'd rather take the USSR back than Yeltsin's corrupt and wild capitalism. What more could a nation ask for than a monopoly on the Russian market?

And ok, I'll forgive you as living in America, but the International Olympic Committee is probably the most corrupted force in the world together with FIFA. No doubt about that. One hand washes the another? Hell no, the one hand washes the other's butt!
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:41 PM
 
26,773 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkai View Post
Yes, sure Russians were so peaceful "assimilating" other countries. That's why your average citizen from Estonia, Latvia (ethnic Latvians), Lithuania, Ukraine (esp. Western Ukraine), Moldova (esp. Romanian-Moldovans), and other former Soviet Union countries don't want to be associated with Russia in any conceivable way.

Russians weren't that bad though.There were crueler assimilators as the Spanish and the British. And many countries have always had an inferiority complex to their large neighbour/s.

I think history was written to suit a few and bash their enemies. And because of the recent (not-so-recent) rivalry between the West and the former Communist countries in "Eastern Europe", these are seen still in a bad light.
What might be true for Balts, is not necessarily true for Asians/Native people of Siberia, or Caucasians for this matter.
Each European nation sees it differently while in a process of colonization, whom they want to be more merciful with. Anglo-Saxons might have given preference to Balts, yet they've wiped out Indians and put Africans in chains; while Russians set Central Asians and Caucasians free from Islamic oppression and didn't exterminate the Native people of Siberia. Then, again, in the US for example Arabs are considered to be "White people," while try to convince the French that Arabs are no different from them and that they are same "Whites." So as I've said every nation in charge has its own outlook - whom it gives the preferences.
Besides, the connotation of "Eastern Europe" being poor and backwards goes to much earlier times than Soviet era, and Baltic countries were one of those countries, not producing ( culturally speaking) any gems, and being poor and constantly on and off under German oppression. You just need to study history more, then your outlook will probably become more informed and balanced.
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