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The one on drugs is the one who believes the sanctions are for anything other than what we keep telling Russia they are for. I don't see sanctions ending since Russia denies the reason they exist. Sort of following a pattern here...like bombing Syrians in Damascus and Aleppo pretending that they are bombing ISIS 500 miles away.
My impression is that a lot of ordinary Americans, perhaps naive, wanted better relations with Russia,
You could see it even on the political forum here, the logical thinking was going like; "Russians are not muslims - they don't threaten us with jihad, they've dropped their Soviet ideology, so why should they remain on our enemy's list? This doesn't make sense."
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but more powerful people are firmly convinced that good relations with Russia are not good for their businesses.
"More powerful people" are not united on a subject of Russia either. SOME think within the lines I mentioned above, but they are not winning.
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And that's what this is all about.
So the ordinary people have to deal with the cards that are dealt to them. And so we live on knife's edge.
Good Luck!
Yes and yes.
And "good luck" - that's all I can say too in this situation..
That isn't at all what this is about. This isn't about power or competition, the bad relations are because of Russia's destabilizing actions against democracy, the same thing the USSR was doing during the cold war.
I see nothing in the Constitution about this so-called "democracy". Where does he live? Name, address, phone number.
He lives in DKM's head.
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I do see powerful men across the global competing with each other on a daily basis for the past 10,000 years and longer, much longer.
Yes, but some of them have more pretenses than other, and some are more altruistic, and that what gives false impression of the overall picture sometimes)))
Being on friendly terms is Putin-speak for dropping sanctions and opposition to what Putin does. The sanctions have nothing to do with anybody (much less "powerful people") making money. The sanctions are driven by ideals. Much like the ban on Russia in the Olympics which is driven by the ideal that states should be dissuaded from helping their athletes cheat. I see the pattern here, Russia trying to pretend the sanctions aren't for the reasons they are for and that people in the west actually want to the sanctions to end. Sanctions aren't about competing they are about punishing illegal destabilizing activity.
They won't end until Russian soldiers (without insignia) leave eastern Ukraine. I see a lot of activities to try to change this without correcting the action that caused the sanctions, but it won't change the outcome. In fact, Putin's meddling in our elections secured this outcome which i'm certain is the opposite of what he wanted. Invading Ukraine didn't help Ukraine stay in Russia's orbit. Cheating at the Olympics did not raise Russia's prestige in the sporting world. Supporting murderous autocracies doesn't give them global standing. Etc etc.
See, the problem with your outlook ( which is often typical for left-wing Americans) is that the US are some kind of a "righteous state" that stands for "everything good" in the world, and acting against American interests is something akin to acting against the "good," while taking side with evil, or acting against the God himself.
However this train of thought is wrong; the US are nothing but yet another country with its own geopolitical interests, and with its own powerful men looking for power and profits.
And that's why they have no more right to be present in Ukraine while looking for the very power and money than Russians, who ( according to your opinion) are there illegally.
If Ukraine is not serving Russian interests, then it's going to serve American geopolitical interests, it's that simple. And American interests ( as I've already explained) is not something of the "world's nirvana" nature.
See, the problem with your outlook ( which is often typical for left-wing Americans) is that the US are some kind of a "righteous state" that stands for "everything good" in the world, and acting against American interests is something akin to acting against the "good," while taking side with evil, or acting against the God himself.
However this train of thought is wrong; the US are nothing but yet another country with its own geopolitical interests, and with its own powerful men looking for power and profits.
And that's why they have no more right to be present in Ukraine while looking for the very power and money than Russians, who ( according to your opinion) are there illegally.
If Ukraine is not serving Russian interests, then it's going to serve American geopolitical interests, it's that simple. And American interests ( as I've already explained) is not something of the "world's nirvana" nature.
Except that's hardly the case. Most left wing Americans are very critical of both domestic and foreign policy. Just look at Sanders. In fact Left ideology tends to value society over the individual, so you can see why they wouldn't be on board with things like healthcare, tuition fees, paid leave... Many on the Left dislike capitalism and advocate for a more socialist approach.
The reason many on the left dislike Russia, excluding the collusion allegations, are numerous. It comes down to liberal policies in a nutshell. Many on the left value cultural diversity, globalism, LGBT rights, freedom of speech, PC environments.
Russia rejects many of these notions under the guise of safeguarding traditional cultural values, which is why it is somewhat popular with certain segments of the Right. These people lambast what they label as "the moral decay" of the West.
In recent years a number of metal bands from foreign countries have been attacked by members of the Russian Orthodox community after being accused of being "satanists".
See, the problem with your outlook ( which is often typical for left-wing Americans) is that the US are some kind of a "righteous state" that stands for "everything good" in the world, and acting against American interests is something akin to acting against the "good," while taking side with evil, or acting against the God himself.
However this train of thought is wrong; the US are nothing but yet another country with its own geopolitical interests, and with its own powerful men looking for power and profits.
And that's why they have no more right to be present in Ukraine while looking for the very power and money than Russians, who ( according to your opinion) are there illegally.
If Ukraine is not serving Russian interests, then it's going to serve American geopolitical interests, it's that simple. And American interests ( as I've already explained) is not something of the "world's nirvana" nature.
Your train of thought is wrong, its evidenced by your presumption of my political leanings. Beyond that, this Russian nonsense that the US is just like them and we are competing over control of Ukraine... uh nope, sorry!
We only got involved in Ukraine when it was apparent that Russia is destabilizing it and we had to take a stand against illegal actions (annexing parts of European countries and invading countries using non uniformed soldiers). It serves our interests to keep Russia from attacking a country trying to reform itself into a liberal democracy (that cursed EU again!). Ukraine begged us to help them fight off invading Russians... so yeah we have the right to be there more than un-uniformed invaders do. The Russians are lucky we aren't actually helping Ukraine control its own border or there would be more zinc boys in cargo 200 trains.
Trump is a lot of bad things, but he is not using his office to make himself and his friends into billionaires compliments of the state. Nor is he sending Americans to die in battle in neighboring countries and lying to us about it. There is no equivalence here, its like equivocating Nazi occupation of France to American liberation of France.
Let's take a look at the American major conflicts attempting to shape the world vs Russian attempts. We can start after 1945 since that's the last time we worked together:
Korea: America keeping Russian backed communists from taking over south Korea.
Vietnam: America keeping Russian backed communists from taking over south vietnam. Ended up withdrawing but communism never conquered again by force (see USSR attempt in Afghanistan)
Gulf War: America booting out Saddam after invading and annexing a neighboring country (and attacking 2 more allies in the process, with Russian supplied arms).
Israeli wars: America supporting Israel against various Russian supported Arab armies who attacked Israel.
Balkan conflicts: America supporting ethnic minorities from being massacred by Russian backed genocidal Serbs.
Gulf War2: America removing Saddam from continued destabilizing the region and attacking his own people.
Afghanistan: America removing the Taliban from power when they supported the 9/11 attackers. Still fighting Russian supported Taliban...
Libya: America helping Libyans defeat their dictator who was attacking his own people (with the support of Russian arms)
Ukraine: America supporting Ukraine against Russian combined armed forces.
Syria: America supporting Kurds when they had their backs against Turkey during the ISIS onslaught. Still there...
Except that's hardly the case. Most left wing Americans are very critical of both domestic and foreign policy. Just look at Sanders.
What about him?
He didn't have a chance to win, plus he is really weak when it comes to international policies.
And of course left-wing Americans are very critical of "domestic and international policies," because of the right wingers in charge.
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In fact Left ideology tends to value society over the individual, so you can see why they wouldn't be on board with things like healthcare, tuition fees, paid leave...
"On board"... meaning with today's right-wing government?
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Many on the Left dislike capitalism and advocate for a more socialist approach.
"Socialist approach" - that's first of all a Russian thing.
And since America sold Russia that "right wing approach" is the way to go... - guess what, now America can't have the "socialist approach" as well. There is God after all))
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The reason many on the left dislike Russia, excluding the collusion allegations, are numerous. It comes down to liberal policies in a nutshell. Many on the left value cultural diversity, globalism, LGBT rights, freedom of speech, PC environments.
"Many on the left" dislike Russia first and utmost, because they believe that because of Russia the left lost its bid for the White House.
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Russia rejects many of these notions under the guise of safeguarding traditional cultural values, which is why it is somewhat popular with certain segments of the Right. These people lambast what they label as "the moral decay" of the West.
Oh boy... When Russians were "internationalists" and "left" - Americans were not happy. Now when Russians are "right" and stick to their "traditional cultural values" - Americans are not happy again)))
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In recent years a number of metal bands from foreign countries have been attacked by members of the Russian Orthodox community after being accused of being "satanists".
Well that's "Russian Orthodox community."
The rest of Russians have their own metal bands)))
Last edited by erasure; 02-26-2018 at 11:34 PM..
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