Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why on earth would Syriza have formed a coalition with pro-Brussels, liberal (in the economic sense) Potami, it would have been akin to a treason of its electoral base. In fact the natural ally of Syriza is the KKE (communist party), and I'm at a loss to understand why it didn't form a coalition with the latter, which has as many seats as the party it made a coalition with.
They didn't form a coalition with KKE, because KKE refuse to work with them. In fact KKE hates Syriza and believe they are fake socialists.
Potami is a pro-brussel party, but that is what Syriza needs if they are going to have any credibility in the negotiations. This would give Syriza more leverage, because they can threaten to leave the coalition, and default. It will make it easier to give concessions to Syriza, and it will be easier for Syriza to moderate their demands.
If you think Syriza will get anywhere by pure blackmail, then you are deluded. EU is built upon cooporation, and do not like countries who rebel. In addition, EU has very little to lose by letting Greece go. What is Syriza going to do, when Troika says "do your worst".
The goal might be to cut debt payments in the short term
If Greece were to adhere totally to the previous terms, over the next five years it would make resource transfers of about 20 percent of one year’s GDP. From the point of view of the creditors, that’s a trivial sum. From the point of the Greeks, however, it’s crucial; the difference between a primary surplus of 4.5 percent of GDP and, say, 1.5 percent of GDP for the Greek economy and the welfare of its citizens is huge. The only reason for the creditors to play hardball would be to make Greece an example, to discourage other debtors from trying to negotiate relief.
welfare? forget welfare. When the country is bankrupt, nobody deserves welfare.
Maybe it is time for Greece to realize that it is not a rich country, and shouldn't trying to maintain a rich country lifestyle. They should look at poorer countries in Asia or Latin America and cut welfare dramatically to be line in with those countries, instead of pretending to be a western European country.
Maybe cut pension by half? lower minimum wage? reduce spending on healthcare? Yes there will be a public outcry but what you gonna do? You are a poor country and live like one.
I don't see a budget problem of Greece. It is always a matter of spending. Imagine what will a rich family will do when the wealth is gone? It sells assets and then live a poorer life. That applies to Greece as well.
That's a recipe for continued economic decline. Unemployment is at 28%.The Greek government should do whatever it takes to boost employment. The point of a democracy is to listen to public outcries. Much of Greek problems wouldn't be there if it weren't on the Euro at all, but it's stuck.
Families and national budget are not good analogies.
I don't see a budget problem of Greece. It is always a matter of spending. Imagine what will a rich family will do when the wealth is gone? It sells assets and then live a poorer life. That applies to Greece as well.
Unless they are bankers or politians, in that case they just get someone else to pay. You will never see a poor politian, all countries are the same, not just Greece.
Quote:
Maybe cut pension by half? lower minimum wage? reduce spending on healthcare? Yes there will be a public outcry but what you gonna do? You are a poor country and live like one.
Lol, ummm, they already have done all that & more, that's why Syriza got into power.
That's a recipe for continued economic decline. Unemployment is at 28%.The Greek government should do whatever it takes to boost employment. The point of a democracy is to listen to public outcries. Much of Greek problems wouldn't be there if it weren't on the Euro at all, but it's stuck.
Families and national budget are not good analogies.
maybe they are not, but the same rule applies - one can't live beyond means forever. Now what Greece is doing is living beyond means at the expense of other EU nations, because "it can't leave".
No, at some point, you can't listen to the public. The public cares nothing about their own interest and they think they are entitled to whatever they used to, even with a raise, irrespective of the economic reality.
All this "boosting employment" is pure empty talk. Every single country wants to boost employment, doesn't it? But how? There is no growth, no competitiveness. One would be stupid to think just by pumping money into the economy employment will automatically be "boosted" - if that's the case, it will be the easiest job to be a finance minister.
Greece's ultimate problem is that it refuses to accept the reality that it is not a rich country any more and is desperately trying to cling to the old lifestyle when it simply can't afford to. When the country is 30% poorer, everyone should be 30% poorer, it is simple math.
If they knew then that the economy would shrink by 25% since the crisis began, the fear of leaving the EU would not have had the leverage over the public. The administration and the parliament were also exempt from the same budget cuts under the agreement with the Troika. They weren't exactly listening to the public, because they were insulated. Greece has great potential for tourism and shipping, but an even better potential if their currency is priced competitively with the euro.
I see Greece differs from the EU on sanctions against Russia. I'd say Mr. Tsipras is looking to score points perhaps with Russia. The pot could be stirring there.
that would be the worst scenario - it is like keep provide a drug addict more cocaine whenever he "needs" more.
Europe is doomed. It is a matter of time countries like Portugal, Spain, and Italy also lose their "developed countries" status.
This is a rather gloomy scenario. Spain has done all the reformations that Greece should've done, and boy has it hurt, but they actually had the guts to do it. Italy was never in the situation of sinking, it just has a lot of debt, but the situation has stabilised there. So is Portugal. The countries will suffer from high unemployment and other cuts for long, but the downfall has been over. The economies of Spain and Portugal are growing, slowly though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
That's a recipe for continued economic decline. Unemployment is at 28%.The Greek government should do whatever it takes to boost employment. The point of a democracy is to listen to public outcries. Much of Greek problems wouldn't be there if it weren't on the Euro at all, but it's stuck.
Families and national budget are not good analogies.
That is also quite one-sided. While part of it is true, the Greek nation can look themselves in the mirror to find the victim who to blame, and not the euro. The austerity policy hasn't been completely effective, but the Greeks politicans have lacked all balls to do enough.
This is a rather gloomy scenario. Spain has done all the reformations that Greece should've done, and boy has it hurt, but they actually had the guts to do it. Italy was never in the situation of sinking, it just has a lot of debt, but the situation has stabilised there. So is Portugal. The countries will suffer from high unemployment and other cuts for long, but the downfall has been over. The economies of Spain and Portugal are growing, slowly though.
And they would have grown faster if they hadn't done those reforms, they had the guts to harm their economy and their citizens. Spain, unlike Greece, had a decent budget and debt pre-crash.
Yes, I'm keep linking to krugman because he's the easiest to search for
Quote:
That is also quite one-sided. While part of it is true, the Greek nation can look themselves in the mirror to find the victim who to blame, and not the euro. The austerity policy hasn't been completely effective, but the Greeks politicans have lacked all balls to do enough.
I didn't say the Greeks weren't blameless, I know the country was rather badly run. I suppose they could have done more austerity and watched their economy shrink some more, what else would an effective austerity be? And the Greek politicians got voted out of office for trying. The Spanish ones should have, too.
Last edited by nei; 01-28-2015 at 01:08 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
