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One reason for Europe's declining Christian population is simply that a lot of people become atheists or simply don't give a crap about religion anymore. But they continue to live here, they are not replaced by Muslims, to the contrary, they are often the harshest critics of Islam.
Neuling
I've observed that many Americans think that "atheists" want the destruction of the west, and that they want Europe to become Islamic.
I find such reasoning idiotic as atheists or people that don't give a crap about religion don't want ANY Religion.
I find it quite funny because Franco and Salazar used to say the same crap.....
Franco used to end every speech with the same line that he inherited from old times but in which he did not really believe. He was Galician, and Galicians have their own religion:
"The Judeomasonic leftist conspiracy of decadent western democracies that wants to destroy our "Eternal Values" (family, religion, etc)....but they will fail because we are the "Moral reserve of the West"....
Franco was in fact very pro-Arab and pro-Jewish, and don't know how he dit it.
I also think that IF we need immigrants here, we should invite young families from Latin American and Christian Africa, maybe even from India as, oddly, Hindus are very compatible with the West, despite Hinduism being a very different religion compared to any of the ME ones.
How can we need immigrants when unemployment is still high pretty much everywhere and inequality has grown to 50s levels?
The blindness of the mass media towards such issues is either surprising or suspicious, your choice.
Who told you that? That's crazy and similar to what Hitler said about Jews. Not true at all.
Europe has very few Middle Easteners, which are more western in outlook or fully westernized.
Wait, so your argument is that European countries all lie about their demographics, and that there really aren't millions of people in the Middle East in Europe? It's all a fantasy? The millions of Turks in Germany and North Africans/Lebanese in France and Iraqis in Sweden are just a fabrication of our minds?
And if you believe the officially reported demographics of Europe then you are "crazy and similar to what Hitler said about Jews"? Huh? Hitler was a demographer or social scientist?
I don't understand anything else in your crazy post, where you're talking about small towns in Michigan, and Christians in Israel, and all kinds of irrelevant nonsense.
How can we need immigrants when unemployment is still high pretty much everywhere and inequality has grown to 50s levels?
The blindness of the mass media towards such issues is either surprising or suspicious, your choice.
That's why I said IF I am not sure we need them, I don't see Japan opening its gates just because they have the same problems there.
I think many politicians are simply scared to hell when they look at the current trends: people get older and older, i.e. they get pensions longer and longer, and at the same time they cost the healthcare system more and more. Increasing retirement age is not really an option when even young people don't find jobs. Not to mention that there is only so much need for 60+ year old employees who naturally lack what it takes to compete with young people. So you have that screwed-up age pyramid and nobody really knows how to handle it. After all, it is a new situation. In the past people had more kids, but more of them died than today. And getting old was more of an exception than a rule. There was a whole lot more dying that kept populations at bay. Not to mention the occasional world war
For the same reason why there are Americans hating Latinos and blacks in the US who they feel put white people on the list of endangered species
I bet it is the same kind of people who also care about the demographic changes in Europe. They like the past when they benefited from the privilege of being white. And every major change to that is considered a threat.
There might also be some nostalgia because Europe is the cradle of white/Western civilization. When that stops, the world will surely end
You must really be running out of arguments, Neuling.
How do you know and other what posters are "white" and which ones aren't? BTW, I'm part of one of those supposedly downtrodden groups you keep referring to, yet I've listened to your really quite ridiculous and exaggerated ideas about blacks in America without pulling out the "racist" card, like you have attempted to do on several occasions. Some of us are interested in Europe as a society, and because we have family there, or for a number of other reasons.
I don't think most of the people posting here discussing the decline of Europe are your idea of pure white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Americans. What their race or background is really shouldn't have anything to do with it. If you insist on creating a discussion based on who's racist and who isn't, I will be quick to tell you that as an actual black person, in my real-life experience, "enlightened" European leftists have been hands down far more racist and paternalistic than your average Republican white guy in America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username
You know, I'm usually more in favour of defending Americans, but this kind of post makes it a bit difficult. Talking about failed experiments, what about the 2008 crisis ?
Also, being French, I'm jealous of your level of arrogance, obviously.
About the subject/ I'm glad Americans are interested in what is happening right now in Europe. Even if it mostly translates on this board in racist or ignorant posting, at least it means that people everywhere have an interest in what is happening in other countries.
I respect your viewpoint, and I agree wholeheartedly that we experienced an economic failure here in 2008.
Being an advocate of open-minded discussion, I am sure you'll consider that it is equally arrogant for Western Europeans to believe that millions of Muslim migrants will suddenly adopt the host country's culture and cause no problems, when the natives of the host country themselves have nothing but disdain for their own culture and traditions. Many Europeans have held on to an outdated idea of European cultural superiority without putting any of the work into European culture that once made the center of world culture. It is, in my opinion, extremely arrogant to believe that masses of outsiders will adopt European culture, well, just because it's European.
Why should, for example, a Syrian Muslim youth adopt German culture when the German youth themselves are adopting American culture, and when German youth are largely ashamed of much of their own history and traditions?
Who told you that? That's crazy and similar to what Hitler said about Jews. Not true at all.
Europe has very few Middle Easteners, which are more western in outlook or fully westernized.
In Europe there are North Africans and Turks, but not many Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Palestinians.
Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Palestinians in Western Europe are very qualified people, businesspeople and not religious at all. Just like Iranians, Iranians here are generally professional and not religious at all.
In the US, they have many people from those countries, Arabs, and they are a very prosperous group. Not including Indians and Iranians.
I guess that the issue is comparable to the political fight between the huge Arab community in Detroit and certain media that attacked them constantly, when they are very prosperous and most are Christians, as 80 percent of Arabs in the US (Lebanon, Israel, Syria and Jordania) are Christian.
But certain Media always attack them notwithstanding their religion, just as they attack Christians in Israel.
The Koran told me that. Have you read it? They are to kill or subdue Infidels that don't convert to the superstition. It's what they are to do if they comply with their religion....so they are either apostates or waiting to get their orders to kill or subdue...I hope for Europe sake they are mostly apostates. Good luck to the Europeans....you're gonna need it.
US minorities are usually not interested in Europe, which also shows in the US tourists here, they are overwhelmingly white and do not represent the US population, where they account for only 70% or so.
Paternalistic, well, that is indeed correct, especially in Central Europe, where black people might experience some odd treatment
I respect your viewpoint, and I agree wholeheartedly that we experienced an economic failure here in 2008.
Being an advocate of open-minded discussion, I am sure you'll consider that it is equally arrogant for Western Europeans to believe that millions of Muslim migrants will suddenly adopt the host country's culture and cause no problems, when the natives of the host country themselves have nothing but disdain for their own culture and traditions. Many Europeans have held on to an outdated idea of European cultural superiority without putting any of the work into European culture that once made the center of world culture. It is, in my opinion, extremely arrogant to believe that masses of outsiders will adopt European culture, well, just because it's European.
Why should, for example, a Syrian Muslim youth adopt German culture when the German youth themselves are adopting American culture, and when German youth are largely ashamed of much of their own history and traditions?
I don't think that is a question of arrogance as much as it is a question of numbers. Sure, there might be as much as one million people coming (and that is already an extremely high hypothesis), but remember Europe has a population that is greater than this of the USA. Obviously Germany will not host everyone.
Most people escape because they are persecuted, risk their lives staying in their country, and most just want to go to a country where they will not be bombed, and their interest is mostly to be able to work so they can get a place to live and something to eat, because it's too difficult in their country.
Why would hundred thousands people move to a country whose culture they supposedly despise ? That makes absolutely zero sense. Why would they spend lifesavings and make a dangerous trip just to go bombing someplace or thinking "let's change this whole place !"
Do you find arrogant the idea that Europe should remain pretty much the same if a few hundred thousands people from outside are coming all of a sudden ? I call it common sense. This is not a question of superior feeling. I don't think most people in Europe actually consider that their culture is superior to the rest of the world. They propably think they'd rather keep it and stay where they are, but hey, I bet that's what Syrians were thinking a few years ago too.
Also, in the end I don't think there are vast differences between German culture, American culture and even if someone comes from Syria, I believe someone who grows up in some place or even lives there for sometime will soon find interest in sharing common interests with the people he meets, providding they don't reject him. I don't see why young Syrians would not play soccer with young germans, listen to the same popular music, etc
Also, I don't think German youths make a conscious act of ditching supposedly German culture for American culture. It's just western culture with some regional variations.
Where I live there are Pakistanis, Chinese, Malians, Senegalese, etc. It is a very socially mixed area. I see kids playing together, Italians eating kebab made by kurds, chinese people have bars, etc. Sure there are people complaining and older people find it weird to see many colored faces on the bus, but I really don't believe Italy is disappearing.
I have already spent evening with Africans, I have seen Pakistani dudes discovering alcohol and starting smoking because all of their coworkers did, and my friend who is kurd would like to get his arms tattooed even of Islam says it's bad. All these people have their cultures, but you cannot deny that they are influenced by the way people live here.
These are the majority of the migrants. Then there is an infinite minority that kills and destroys. Unfortunately for everyone.
hobbesdj
US minorities are usually not interested in Europe, which also shows in the US tourists here, they are overwhelmingly white and do not represent the US population, where they account for only 70% or so.
How would you know the racial distribution of American tourists to Europe and whether or not it corresponds to the racial distribution in America?
70% of Americans are white but 15% are Hispanic, most of which are racially white too. How would you be able to pick out Americans in Europe, and make general assumptions about their racial distribution as tourists?
I am probably one of the few people on this thread that has lived both in Europe and the U.S., and I have no clue of the racial lineage and citizenship of people I pass by on the street.
How would you know the racial distribution of American tourists to Europe and whether or not it corresponds to the racial distribution in America?
70% of Americans are white but 15% are Hispanic, most of which are racially white too. How would you be able to pick out Americans in Europe, and make general assumptions about their racial distribution as tourists?
I am probably one of the few people on this thread that has lived both in Europe and the U.S., and I have no clue of the racial lineage and citizenship of people I pass by on the street.
I do know. When you live in various countries, some of which even tourists hot spots, you learn to look and listen carefully over the decades.
And no, Hispanics do usually not look like whites from the Midwest or so. That's like saying Spaniards look like Germans, they don't.
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I am not sure we need them, I don't see Japan opening its gates just because they have the same problems there. 
