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Old 03-14-2016, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in Southern Italy
2,974 posts, read 2,816,051 times
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In the past elections in most of Western Europe were fought between a center-left socialdemocratic or socialist party and a conservative party but now we've witnessed the growing influence of newly born political movements that are usually (but not always) either far left or far right.

In France, the two party system has been undone by right-wing and populist Front National who keeps polling as the most popular party; in Spain it's been undone by liberal centrist Ciudadanos and far left populist Podemos; in Italy the system has been overturned by ecologist and alternative leftist Five Star Movement while in Germany it seems to be slowly changing with the Greens and AfD's rise in regional elections and in national polls. Belgium is as fragmented as a political system can be and the same goes to a lesser extent for Netherlands and Switzerland.

The exception to the rule are the UK and Portugal and even there there are signs things might change. Is this the birth of new political scenarios for the Western half of the "Old Continent"?
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Kingdom of pain, Southern Europe
1,304 posts, read 1,128,309 times
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Default I'll take any chance I can to make fun of Albert Rivera.

Maybe.

http://finofilipino.org/post/1384911...antes-politica
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Old 03-14-2016, 01:42 PM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,558,959 times
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The UK will change as well.

Labour is a major disappointment.

New far left and far right parties will emerge.
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:17 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,367 posts, read 14,313,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improb View Post
In the past elections in most of Western Europe were fought between a center-left socialdemocratic or socialist party and a conservative party but now we've witnessed the growing influence of newly born political movements that are usually (but not always) either far left or far right.

In France, the two party system has been undone by right-wing and populist Front National who keeps polling as the most popular party; in Spain it's been undone by liberal centrist Ciudadanos and far left populist Podemos; in Italy the system has been overturned by ecologist and alternative leftist Five Star Movement while in Germany it seems to be slowly changing with the Greens and AfD's rise in regional elections and in national polls. Belgium is as fragmented as a political system can be and the same goes to a lesser extent for Netherlands and Switzerland.

The exception to the rule are the UK and Portugal and even there there are signs things might change. Is this the birth of new political scenarios for the Western half of the "Old Continent"?
Why is the UK an exception? There was a conservative-liberal democrat coalition in 2010 and the SNP rules Scotland.

At any rate, in general these political concepts/terms like left, right, socialist, democrat, conservative, liberal, which started in, what, the late 1800s are by now becoming obsolete, fewer people care or are swayed by them, and the younger generations won't even know what they mean. Personally I haven't paid attention to them since the 1990s.

And good riddance!

Nevertheless, to box people in, rulers and politicians will have to come up with a new set of concepts and terms for the twenty-first century, an era of different technology and social organization compared to some 120 years ago.

Time to move on, no?

It won't be that difficult really. Although it could get bumpy for a while.

Good Luck!

Last edited by bale002; 03-14-2016 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 03-14-2016, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in Southern Italy
2,974 posts, read 2,816,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Why is the UK an exception? There was a conservative-liberal democrat coalition in 2010 and the SNP rules Scotland.

At any rate, in general these political concepts/terms like left, right, socialist, democrat, conservative, liberal, which started in, what, the late 1800s are by now becoming obsolete, fewer people care or are swayed by them, and the younger generations won't even know what they mean. Personally I haven't paid attention to them since the 1990s.

And good riddance!

Nevertheless, to box people in, rulers and politicians will have to come up with a new set of concepts and terms for the twenty-first century, an era of different technology and social organization compared to some 120 years ago.

Time to move on, no?

It won't be that difficult really. Although it could get bumpy for a while.

Good Luck!
The Liberal Dems and any support they had seems to have crumbled with their entry into the coalition government.

Anyway, you are right that labels will stop mattering to the extent which they do now, there are already political movements (The short lasting Pirates in Germany and the Five Star Movement in Italy) who tried to bring a change to political terminology.
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Old 03-15-2016, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,813,132 times
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Finland has always been a three-party system, with the conservatives, centre and social democrats. These are called the "three big ones" or the "old parties", as they are all founded in the early 1900's.

The rise of the populist True Finns broke this pattern, becoming the fourth big party, but having the benefit of being a "new" party.
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,409,483 times
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A two party system is just one party better than a communist country. The more parties, the better. If forces parties to compromise and create coalitions. This is something that 2 party systems stop doing after awhile and then you get the dysfunctionality you now see in Washington DC. The moment you refuse to compromise, your democracy/constitutional republic dies.
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:29 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 1,116,324 times
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In Germany (after WWII) we had for most of the time just 3 parties. The conservatives CDU/CSU, the social democrats SPD and the liberals FDP. Until the reunification CDU/CSU and SPD normally achieved election results of more than 40%. The FDP normally about 5-10%. In the early 80s the greens Grüne entered many state parliaments and also the federal parliament. At the beginning they weren't considered able to govern at least not in the federal government. But that has changed. At the moment we have 4 "staatstragende" (underpinning the state) parties. CDU/CSU, SPD, FDP and Grüne. All those parties make a reasonable policy. And they are able to form a coaltion with each other. By the reunifiation we get our 5. party, the Left party "Die Linke" the successor party of the former SED (Socialist Unity Party of East Germany). They are able to govern in East German states, but not on the federal level.
Now we seem to get a 6. party, the AFD. It's an extreme right-wing party or a national-conservative party. So far mostly elected by protest voters. They still don't have a party program. It's not clear whether this party will remain or disappear. When they only try to get protest voters, then they will disappear, but I guess that they will develope a party program. Most likely that they will become a national-conservative party to the right of the CDU/CSU. The CDU under Merkel has adopted several more social democratic positions, it seems that there is now a place for a party right of the CDU. But it would take quite a lot of time until this party will be able to govern.
Most of the political work is done in commissions, that normally ensures that new parties will change their absurd positions to more reasonable positions. We have seen it by the Grüne, also by Die Linke and most likely we will see it by the AFD.
Germany is a rather consensus-oriented country. People expect that politicians cooperate with each other and find a solution together.
The second chamber in Germany, the Bundesrat has 69 votes. In many German states the Grüne are part of the state governments. The Grüne could block 41 of the 69 votes. Many laws need approval in the Bundesrat. The grand coalition out of CDU/CSU and SPD constantly has to talk with the Grüne for legislation. That works very well. Much better than for example in the 90s, where the SPD constantly blocked the CDU/CSU+FDP coalition.
One should think that more parties could mean unstable governments, but that doesn't seem the case in Germany. The differences between the 4 "staatstragende" parties CDU/CSU, SPD, Grüne and FDP, aren't that big any more. It seems very different to the situation in the U.S.

Here is a nice YT video about political campaign ads in the U.S., the UK and Germany:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG_76NAzo9Y
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,211 posts, read 107,931,771 times
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I wouldn't say the two-party systems are dying. I look at it differently; what's happening is that extremist groups are rising and gaining a bit of traction due to immigration issues, mainly, and/or ethnic politics, however you want to describe it. Those elements were always present in society, but the immigration crises in Europe and the US are giving them a platform they feel is legitimate, so they're coming out of the woodwork and asserting themselves in a way that wasn't acceptable before. In the past, it was more of an underground current, and now it's come above-ground.

How long the trend lasts is anybody's guess. I think (I hope) these "new" parties or movements will remain a fringe phenomenon in most places, but the rise of nationalism/xenophobia, whatever you want to call it, is a bit worrisome.
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Old 03-15-2016, 03:15 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,367 posts, read 14,313,867 times
Reputation: 10085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
A two party system is just one party better than a communist country. The more parties, the better. If forces parties to compromise and create coalitions. This is something that 2 party systems stop doing after awhile and then you get the dysfunctionality you now see in Washington DC. The moment you refuse to compromise, your democracy/constitutional republic dies.
Plenty of corrupt countries that have proportional representation systems, Italy and Israel come to mind.

There is no reality of political parties or electoral systems or ideologies, there is only the reality of human beings.
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