How would you rank France, Italy and Spain in terms of economic power, military strength and diplomatic influence? (country, people)
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I'm pretty sure it's France>Italy>Spain in each of these aspects but I want to know your opinions.
France is a "conventional" great power. Italy is the so-called "least of the Great powers". That puts Italy behind France but ahead of Spain, which is a regional power. It is to be said that all three are also mentioned as simple middle powers, cause academics have often disagreements.
●Economy
If you look at the exports, at the nominal GDP and at the total wealth it's always France>Italy>Spain. Same for HDI figures, but i'm not considering that statistic or per capita figures: I'm looking at the size and power of their economies.
●Military (France easily)
•France has his own nukes. That cleary puts France ahead. Italy is part of the Nuclear Sharing program, so it does have some kind of nuclear deterrence.
•France has a huge amount of bases in Africa and four carriers (between helicopter carriers and aircraft carriers) to project its power. Italy has some bases here and there (in Djibouti and in the Emirates) and two carriers. Spain does not have overseas bases and it has one carrier. France has a blue-water navy. Italy has a navy considered something in between blue-water and green-wate. Spain has a green water navy
●Diplomacy (I think Spain is way behind here)
•Italy and France are in the g7/g8 and in the G20. Spain is just a guest in the last one. Italy and France are in the NATO Quint along with America, Germany and the UK. Spain isn't.
•In the UN France is a permanent member, and that puts it ahead. Italy is the leading country in the "Uniting for consensus group". Spain is a part of that very group with a secondary role. Italy has been elected to the UNSC more times than Spain and it's part of much more Contact groups. France and Italy lead various international missions and have a lot (compared to european standards) of UN peacekeepers.
•Italy and France are founding members and net contributors of the EU. That's not the case for Spain. Not to mention voting power which clearly favours France and Italy with 70 million and 60 million people respectively, while Spain is at 45.
•Spain's strength is Latin America but I bet France has a stronger diplomatic network there (it's the second biggest in the world) and Italy has the Roman Catholic Church.
Last edited by Renaissance Roman; 03-28-2017 at 08:26 AM..
France is way more important than Italy and Spain (an European heavyweight, nuclear power and UN security Council member).
Italy and Spain are both second tier powers in Europe, Italy being slightly overrated , Spain underrated (Spain has a more global influence than Italy, notably in Spanish-speaking countries-the whole of Latin America-!), its economy is slightly better, its infrastructures much better).
Militarily speaking it's not a debate at all.
France has ICBM (from its 4 SSBN ships) with MIRV wareheads which end the debate absolutely immediately... USA, Russia, China, UK and India are the others to have these deadly weapons.
And in term of expenditures it's more France = Italy + Spain...
I don't see Spain being so much influent in diplomacy. They are often being left out of decision-making groups. That's not the case for France and Italy.
Size of the economy (so not the wealth or dynamism..)
France > Italy >>> Spain
Diplomacy :
France >> Italy > Spain
But anyway, even considering this, France is a nanoscopic midget compare to USA or China.
Our diplomacy HAS to be a courageous UE in the future, with the four leaders Germany, France, Italy and Spain.
Else we will be nothing, just countries of 45-90 million inhabitants between USA and China.
I don't include Russia because economically, it's peanuts. Without its 3000 wareheads, this country would be very quiet...
I don't see Spain being so much influent in diplomacy. They are often being left out of decision-making groups. That's not the case for France and Italy.
Then you see it bad. Actually Spain is quite superior to Italy in diplomacy. Latin America supports this.
And huh, that's not the case of France. But Italy?
Second, Spain is a NET contributor to the EU from some years ago, better check your sources.
It's funny that you mention Roman Catholicism because without Spain this religion would be a 3rd class religion while nowadays is the 1st religion thanks to Spain. Latin America and Philippines, Mexico... 1/2 of the actual Roman Catholics exist thanks to Spain. Not for Italy lol.
As said before, Italy is overrated and Spain underrated. Spain is superior economically to Italy, it doesn't count who has the biggest GDP (that's normal having 15 mill. more of population) Or because China has more GDP than Japan, China is economically better? Or because Turkey has more than Netherlands? Same case.
What it counts is the purchasing power, infraestructures, HDI... Spain wins clearly on all of those.
Remember that Italy is the European country with the biggest debt by far (percentage) and has many problems.
Militarily France beats both together. Italy is somehow superior to Spain in military (remember that Spain's expenditure on military is pretty low) although Spain has a powerful marine with 1 aircraft carrier and another under construction and a powerful air force, both of those (navy and air force) being amongst the 10th on the world. Both Italy and Spain have a more defensive army than one intended to make a war. Don't forget that Spain has the 5th or the 6th biggest military industry of the world.
Spain has a self defense army. And for fighting to protect Spain is enough against any possible invasion. France can invade most of the countries of the earth if they want, the strength of France is amongst the 5th worldwide easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole
France is way more important than Italy and Spain (an European heavyweight, nuclear power and UN security Council member).
Italy and Spain are both second tier powers in Europe, Italy being slightly overrated , Spain underrated (Spain has a more global influence than Italy, notably in Spanish-speaking countries-the whole of Latin America-!), its economy is slightly better, its infrastructures much better).
Exactly
Global economic power
France>>>Italy>Spain
Economy
France>>Spain>Italy
Military strength
France>>>Italy>Spain
Diplomatic influence
France>Spain>>>Italy
Last edited by ase42dv; 03-28-2017 at 10:17 AM..
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Actually Spain is quite superior to Italy in diplomacy. Latin America supports this.
