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Not a Scandinavian at all but I've been there and have friends there.
Looking at it from the other end of the telescope, I've heard Europeans from south of the Baltic jokingly dismiss Scandinavia in terms of "well, that's not really Europe anyway".
By and large though I don't think that they have negative feelings towards the Nordics.
Outside Europe though, I'd definitely think most people consider the Nordics to be fully "Europe". The rugged wilderness and such doesn't necessarily correspond to people's image of the Old Continent, but narrow streets and royal palaces certainly do.
I think you will find London and other British cities are very cosmopolitan and that the UK has no problem with Europe, indeed the EU is a political entity rather than geographic one. The UK has historically been a maritime nation and has traded with the entire world including Empire, and the countrty is full of ports welcoming ships from across the globe.
London to Paris is just over 2 hours by train and the UK has excellent connections to Europe and most European nations have a sense of self identity and national pride. It's also woth noting that the British Isles has seen numerous invasion and war from Europe and the English Channel has often served as a defensive moat.
Or as William Shakespeare wrote in his 1595 work Richard II -
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
Yes there surely must be plenty of British people who feel no sense of separateness from the rest of Europe and London is obviously a very cosmopolitan place , yet that doesn't change the fact that the tendency of feeling separate from the rest of the Continent has been present within British society throughout history .
I mean it's a widely accepted historical fact that one of the reasons the ( f.ex ) USA developed such peculiar institutions compared to Europe , was due to its legacy as a British colony what with Britain having developed the blueprint for what later became the American political/economic/to some extent social system .
FWIW why does it seem that the issue of Scandinavians having or not having a sense of separateness to the rest of the Continent is rarely brought up as opposed to the people of the British Isles ?
Is it because the British Isles have played a much more prominent role in European history/society ? Or are there other factors at work unknown to me ?
Looking at it from the other end of the telescope, I've heard Europeans from south of the Baltic jokingly dismiss Scandinavia in terms of "well, that's not really Europe anyway".
The Baltic region is still considered semi-Russian by many and we all know Russia in only partly European
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
By and large though I don't think that they have negative feelings towards the Nordics.
I hope not. Scandinavia has tonns of Baltic workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Outside Europe though, I'd definitely think most people consider the Nordics to be fully "Europe". The rugged wilderness and such doesn't necessarily correspond to people's image of the Old Continent, but narrow streets and royal palaces certainly do.
That can actually be a positive thing. Being grouped in with certain European countries can also be a liability.
I think it’s because Britain has been invaded so many times.
LOL - we later did a lot of invading ourselves, and were nearly constantly at war with other European nations, and especially the French.
Our best relations with Europe were actually during Splendid isolation., however we did end up helping Europe against tyranny in the 20th century and in securing the WW2 peace and will remain part of Europe if not the EU, as Europe's historys is usually intertwinned with our own.
This calls for more Shakespare this time Henry V - the St. Crispin’s Day speech 1415, before the Battle of Agincourt against the French.
"From this day to the end of time, without our being remembered: we few, we happy few, we band of brothers—for whoever sheds his blood with me today shall be my brother. However humble his birth, this day shall grant him nobility. And men back in England now safe in their beds will curse themselves for not having being here, and think less of their own manhood when they listen to the stories of those who fought with us here on St. Crispin’s Day".
As an American of British and Scandinavian ancestry, and who has lived and worked around the European continent
I love Europe and we have a lot to learn from it.
But the UK and Scandinavia are pretty much the sole parts of the European continent that have avoided all of the awful things of the 20th century: evil dictators, Communist totalitarianism and poverty, undemocratic governments, occupation, etc. (Yes, Denmark and Norway were occupied, but Denmark remained more or less a democracy throughout WWII, and Norway didn't take too well to its mini-Hitler, Quisling. Finland stood up to the USSR and did quite well for itself.)
So while plenty of Europeans (rightfully so) sneer at Donald Trump and (wrongfully so) seem to have a sense of moral superiority, I view the European continent (except the UK and Scandinavia) as where all of whose awful disasters of the 20th century arose.
So, yes, the UK and Scandinavia are somewhat separate from Europe: the UK and Scandinavia have clean hands and can hold their heads high. The rest of Europe can't.
As an American of British and Scandinavian ancestry, and who has lived and worked around the European continent
I love Europe and we have a lot to learn from it.
But the UK and Scandinavia are pretty much the sole parts of the European continent that have avoided all of the awful things of the 20th century: evil dictators, Communist totalitarianism and poverty, undemocratic governments, occupation, etc. (Yes, Denmark and Norway were occupied, but Denmark remained more or less a democracy throughout WWII, and Norway didn't take too well to its mini-Hitler, Quisling. Finland stood up to the USSR and did quite well for itself.)
So while plenty of Europeans (rightfully so) sneer at Donald Trump and (wrongfully so) seem to have a sense of moral superiority, I view the European continent (except the UK and Scandinavia) as where all of whose awful disasters of the 20th century arose.
So, yes, the UK and Scandinavia are somewhat separate from Europe: the UK and Scandinavia have clean hands and can hold their heads high. The rest of Europe can't.
I hope I don't come off as a smart aleck , but Britain had plenty of poverty in the early and mid twentieth century and if I'm not mistaken countries like Norway were economically rather backwards before the discovery of oil in the late 60s or so ...
As for the USA , while it didn't experience totalitarianism ( of the national level sort anyways ) and such it certainly has plenty of regions ( like Appalachia and the Mississippi Delta ) that to this day remain extremely undeveloped and still seem to have aspects of their full on semi feudal past in full gear ...
I mean some of the things Appalachian whites and Southern blacks ( among others ) endured at one time would very much be referred to as totalitarian if applied at a country level context , yet private business and local/state governments seem to get a pass at that even though they have very much acted in a totalitarian manner throughout US history ...
I'm not trying to bash the US , just offering my perspective , and since we're on the subject of moral superiority that is obviously something no country can claim to be a bastion of what with all countries having their good and bad aspects .
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