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How much of the youth play it? In America, Gridiron Football is seen as the "tough" sport, so most kids will have some experience with it. All kids anywhere want to prove "toughness". Is Rugby Union seen this way in Europe or just in the British Isles and France? I know it is the national sport of Wales.
The thing thought with American Gridiron Football is there is a street/recreational version that mostly played away from organized/formal competition which does not involved full contact rough-housery. That is probably the version that is mostly played by American kids with the occassional decision to play with full contact rules just for the rush. But most of the time kids dont want to get dirty and have shirts torn. But it is still good training for the real thing.
I dont believe Rugby Union has a version of this. Rugby League does though. Union rules really dont allow for anything but full contact rough-housery. Therefore is Rugby only played through organized/formal competitions?
I was trying to learn more about payscales of professsional Rugby players. I have been watching a lot of the matches lately in the English, United, and Top 14 leagues. Those are the three big leagues of Europe. The crowds are not as big as American Football, nor the Association Football games. And like Association, there is no TV ads, but sponsors on jerseys and the walls lining the field. It seems the French Top 14 pays the most with around 200+ Euros on average. In England it is the 100+ Euros. It is obviously no where near the scale of professional soccer players, but is that still considered a good salary by European standards? Is it enough to really make many kids want to be professional rugby players.
The national team games seem to draw much larger crowds. Are the domestic leagues like the Gallaghers not that popular? Is country vs country the only event that will draw out large crowds and make people care? Do most countries have their own domestic leagues? Is rugby only played in certain elite schools meant for the upper echelons of society? I may have heard in the past about how soccer is a gentlemens' game played by ruffians, and rugby is a ruffians game played by gentlemen.
Last edited by NJ Brazen_3133; 07-30-2023 at 10:23 PM..
In the Northern Hemisphere Rugby Union's main popularity is in relation to Britain and Ireland, as well as France and Italy, with the main competition being 'The Six Nations' and at club level the European Rugby Champions Cup (also known as the Heineken Champions Cup).
In terms of the Southern Hemisphere it's more of a mix of nations and popularity.
Ruby League has a northern heartland in terms of England, although again it's played internationally in relation to Rugby League European Championship and other such competitions.
Both Union and League have World Cups, although Union is the far bigger and more watched event.
The same is true of cricket, which has even less of a following in many parts of Europe than Rugby, however in terms of the Southern Hemisphere and other parts of the world it's a different picture.
It should however be noted that the UK has invented sports or the pre-cursors of numerous sports, with many being among the most popular sports on the international stage and it should also be noted that a number of sports that are popular in major countries such as the US are not always universally popular.
Last edited by Brave New World; 07-31-2023 at 05:39 AM..
Rugby has always been one of the most popular sports in the UK, however until relatively recently in England it was a sport mainly played by the toffs and it was believe it or not amateur! I think that in Wales, with regards to the 'class' thing anyway it was different - it was working class. Things didn't start to change until as late as the mid 1990's when finally Rugby Union became professional in England and Wales (I think it may have been slightly earlier in Wales). With regards to Rugby League that I think was a more 'working class' code of rugby (in England) and it is also very much concentrated in the North of England. Rugby Union is also quite a popular sport in Scotland, in both England and Scotland though (unlike in Wales) football was the sport played by the 'working classes' and Rugby (Union anyway) was played by the toffs, which may explain why football is so dominant in England and Scotland whereas Rugby Union is at least as popular as football in Wales.
The 6 Nations competition is competed between England, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, France & Wales and is watched in packed stadiums. There are other European countries with fairly competitive International rugby (Union) teams, I've seen Georgian, Romanian and Spainish teams compete quite well. The 'other' hotbed of the game is in the Southern Hemisphere where the game is even more 'dominant' nationally than it is in Europe Australia, Argentina, South Africa and New Zealand, in New Zealand and I 'think' South Africa it is by far the most popular sport - particularly in New Zealand. In recent years the game has started to really grow and it is now quite popular in Japan of all places.
There is a European International Championship for international teams in Europe that do not compete in the 6 Nations and that includes such places as Germany, Belgium, Poland the Netherlands and Sweden (plus a few more), the game is growing further in Europe too.
I always thought that perhaps Rugby League would be a sport that would prove to be the kind of thing that would appeal to people in the US.
Is rugby outside the Brit Isles, France and Italy but in Europe then just ammy only then? All three major pro leagues in Euro are part of promotion/relegation system with second tier leagues. There has to be enough players to fill in those slots.
How is the payscale then? Do pro rugby players in Europe make a good living? Obviously not as swell as soccer players? But terms on payscale is Rugby numero dos in Europe?
Also I been trying to research this but how many games do teams usually play? Also how long is season, and when start and end? I cannot seem to find this. Apparently the season is two halves, and there is break in the middle. But then players have national team duties, and teams have play in continental competitions.
The 2023 Rugby World cup is coming. Only the usual teams plus Portugal, and Romania are participating. Netherlands, and Spain tried for it though. I dont think either 4 countries has their own pro leagues though.
How is the payscale then? Do pro rugby players in Europe make a good living? Obviously not as swell as soccer players? But terms on payscale is Rugby numero dos in Europe?
They do OK. It's not in the same universe as football players. Not even close. For comparison, in England, the EPL's revenue is ~$7b, the Championship (second division) revenue is $600m and League One (third division) revenue is ~$285m. By comparison Premiership Rugby's revenue was $290m. So about where third division football is. The rugby comp also has a salary cap per squad of £5m, the average salary per player in the EPL was about £3.5m. The chasm is vast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
Is it enough to really make many kids want to be professional rugby players.
How many people have a different skill that will pay them a couple of hundred grand a year as a 21 year old?
They do OK. It's not in the same universe as football players. Not even close. For comparison, in England, the EPL's revenue is ~$7b, the Championship (second division) revenue is $600m and League One (third division) revenue is ~$285m. By comparison Premiership Rugby's revenue was $290m. So about where third division football is. The rugby comp also has a salary cap per squad of £5m, the average salary per player in the EPL was about £3.5m. The chasm is vast.
How many people have a different skill that will pay them a couple of hundred grand a year as a 21 year old?
So the payscale is like third tier soccer players in England? Dang. Well if it is a couple of hundred grand then Jesus Christ, England watches a lot soccer/football. How you not get sick of it?
I know you guys used to have issues with violent hooligans. I wondered, why dont they just then watch rugby or go play rugby? It is the violent sport. It seems it can solve that issue of youth wanting to get out all that aggression or be apart of something violent.
I know you guys used to have issues with violent hooligans. I wondered, why dont they just then watch rugby or go play rugby? It is the violent sport. It seems it can solve that issue of youth wanting to get out all that aggression or be apart of something violent.
There's a pretty strong cultural element running through it. You have to remember the origins of rugby is British public (private in US parlance) schools. It's a game built around elitism. Football hooliganism has its origins in disaffected, young, working class men. The two groups don't tend to cross paths.
There's a pretty strong cultural element running through it. You have to remember the origins of rugby is British public (private in US parlance) schools. It's a game built around elitism. Football hooliganism has its origins in disaffected, young, working class men. The two groups don't tend to cross paths.
Ahhh, I see. Rugby is for toughening up the rich kids. Is that also true for the other Rugby playing countries of Europe like even Spain, or Romania?
I always lightened Rugby to a Cavalry charge, while soccer/football is like what archers or musket carrying infantry do or as a way to train them for it. With Cavalry made up of the upper crust of society.
But going back to payscales. Does pro rugby really pay that much? From my own internet research it is much lower. Do you have a better source?
Ahhh, I see. Rugby is for toughening up the rich kids. Is that also true for the other Rugby playing countries of Europe like even Spain, or Romania?
It's a third or fourth tier sport in continental Europe with the exception of France. It has absolutely no cultural relevance so I doubt private schools in Spain and Romania are playing rugby – I wouldn't describe either country as a "rugby playing country." Not sure it's really about toughening up rich kids, rugby is a rough sport but it's not particularly violent in the way rugby league is. It's really just rooted in class – the whole thing about amateurism goes back to class; only the poor needed to be paid to play sport etc. It's the reason why rugby struggles with mainstream acceptance in the countries where it is played. New Zealand probably being the exception because it really is the everyman's game there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133
But going back to payscales. Does pro rugby really pay that much? From my own internet research it is much lower. Do you have a better source?
I'd say it's probably pretty top heavy with one or two players on something approaching a million a year and lots of guys on a bus driver's salary. That seems to be the way with most professional sportsmen. But really, there just isn't that much money in rugby.
There's a pretty strong cultural element running through it. You have to remember the origins of rugby is British public (private in US parlance) schools. It's a game built around elitism. Football hooliganism has its origins in disaffected, young, working class men. The two groups don't tend to cross paths.
Rugby League is more of a working class game, however Union is the more popular game, as for the narratives based on class and schools, are now extremely tired and outdated, and a lot of what went in terms of football hooliganism was based on local and league rivalries, along with the excitement and buzz related to such violence rather than than some deep political or social reasoning.
Football hooliganism today, it's no longer as prevalent in the UK as it was in it's heyday back in the 1970's and 80's, and is also no where near as prevalent when compared to many other European countries, and this is especially true in relation to the Premiership and Championship leagues.
The reason football hooliganism died out, was because the Government cracked down, and people started receiving long prison sentences and were subject to life time bans from football matches, whilst in terms of international games they had their passports withdrawn, were subject to signing on at police stations, ankle tags and other such restrictions.
In terms of the six nations Rugby Union is very popular with a broad spectrum of people in relation to all the home nations along with the likes if France and Italy, and it's not seen as an elitist sport.
I would also not call Rugby's heartlands such as Wales (Union) or the North West of England (League) elitist areas, and the same is true of their populations.
Last edited by Brave New World; 08-03-2023 at 04:43 AM..
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