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if you are an academic, however, and are looking to break into the one of the "professional" scenes in Germany (e.g. finance & banking, education, IT, law), get ready for a rough ride.
Is that true? I would've expected academics to be more accepting and, in fact, I know many foreign-born professors and researchers (mostly Indian and Chinese, but also a few Africans, Americans, Brits, Spaniards and Arabs) who work for German universities and they seem to feel welcomed there.
Is that true? I would've expected academics to be more accepting and, in fact, I know many foreign-born professors and researchers (mostly Indian and Chinese, but also a few Africans, Americans, Brits, Spaniards and Arabs) who work for German universities and they seem to feel welcomed there.
Europe is very elitist at the upper echelons ...the poster should have substituted white collar professional for academic though...but the gist of his comments are accurate.
i worked with many EU diplomats--a very prestigious career-- before and the only time I saw a non white person as an EU diplomat represented the UK (one Indian) and the French (a security or perhaps intelligence) officer.
I have never seen a Turkish German or a person of color aside from that...and I hit all of the main spots--vienna, kabul, nyc....
Location: Kowaniec, Nowy Targ, Podhale. 666 m n.p.m.
355 posts, read 977,313 times
Reputation: 497
Fact is, the "lower class" from Poland is massively immigrating into Germany because the salaries are double for the same kind of work. In the meanwhile, the German "lower class" are complaining that they are taking their jobs, which is a load of ****e, because if the Germans were working these jobs themselves, they would've never been available for the Polish immigrants in the first place. But it's easier to say when you're on the dole that you cannot find a job because all the Poles have taken them than to say you're unwilling to work for €8 per hour, and rather take a €800/month handout from the state...
Add to that that Germans have historically always sort of looked down on their eastern neighbour, and nowadays Poland is doing economically better than rural Eastern Germany, so what makes the shame for them even worse is that rich Poles from Szczecin are buying all the "cheap" properties in places like Tantow, and basically all the way west to Pasewalk, driving the house prices up there...
Last edited by sunshineleith; 11-25-2011 at 11:29 AM..
Reason: removed orphaned material
i worked with many EU diplomats--a very prestigious career-- before and the only time I saw a non white person as an EU diplomat represented the UK (one Indian) and the French (a security or perhaps intelligence) officer.
Well, at least at the university level it is definitely not true, plenty of foreign staff. There are also Turkish-born politicians in Germany, among other nationalities.
Perhaps the main reasons why most EU diplomats are white is not them being elitist but more because you might need an EU citizenship become one?
Back to the original question: I lived in Germany for years. Enormous amounts of German women dated Black soldiers or just Black American tourists. In my opinion, they seemed to prefer Black BF's over Caucasians. I saw far less bias towards Blacks in Germany than I have seen in the States.
As others have said, it's different in places like Weimar, Rostock or other cities of the old East Germany. And the chances of you visiting places like that are virtually nil. But in the west there should be zero problem.
Back to the original question: I lived in Germany for years. Enormous amounts of German women dated Black soldiers or just Black American tourists. In my opinion, they seemed to prefer Black BF's over Caucasians. I saw far less bias towards Blacks in Germany than I have seen in the States.
As others have said, it's different in places like Weimar, Rostock or other cities of the old East Germany. And the chances of you visiting places like that are virtually nil. But in the west there should be zero problem.
I've mentioned before that I know a black Lady from Ghana who lives there and she loves it. Never had any problems. I also have been to Weimar myself. It's a lovely city.
And, I don't quite believe that you "saw far less bias towards Blacks in Germany than I have seen in the States". Why? Because people here were born and raised with black folks around them. That makes a huge difference, imo. You might want to elaborate on that claim... Maybe you were just too focused on getting laid, though.
Last edited by Glucorious; 11-25-2011 at 10:33 AM..
Reason: Tweak
I'm sure they are looked at as any other normal human beings. Especially given the large amount of African Americans that have lived in Germany via the United States Military.
That's the point. There are hardly any AA tourists, probably because of the obviously missing genealogical ties, and the military is pretty much confined to a few locations. Other than that Germans are by and large not really used to dealing with AA's, which doesn't necessarily mean you would run into problems.
On the other hand, just yesterday I was reading about a white German married to an African woman, he told the kind of insults he and his family of four have had to endure even in his big city.
I am just mentioning this because in my experience Germans don't really distinguish between AA's and Africans, to them black is black.
So, if you want to go there, stick to the big cities where people are used to black people, like the Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Bad Kreuznach corridor, Heidelberg/Mannheim, Kaiserslautern, Munich, Stuttgart, but maybe also a few very progressive cities such as Freiburg.
Unfortunately there have been cases where even in very crowded places such as metro stations minority people have been attacked and killed, mostly because in such places there is that strange tendency for bystanders not to intervene. People just wait for others to do something and at the end of the day nobody intervenes.
Europe is very elitist at the upper echelons ...the poster should have substituted white collar professional for academic though...but the gist of his comments are accurate.
i worked with many EU diplomats--a very prestigious career-- before and the only time I saw a non white person as an EU diplomat represented the UK (one Indian) and the French (a security or perhaps intelligence) officer.
I have never seen a Turkish German or a person of color aside from that...and I hit all of the main spots--vienna, kabul, nyc....
Thanks- i actually did mean to say white collar, not academic :-)
i think what happens is that they essentially look out for their own. though i did manage to get a job in the financial sector after finishing my degree there back in the late 90's, i was a total oddity in the bank in which i was working. i knew of one black German guy from Leipzig who worked there, but other than that no other (obvious) foreigners, and not a single Turk. i have to be fair and admit that the people i worked directly with were OK and very nice, but someone always had a racial remark to make (things like, "hey! have you been on vacation? you must have been, because your skin sure is tanned!"). i don't mind the racial jokes, but they were always so stupid- not funny, because people there lack the knowledge of American culture that makes these sorts of things humorous. it was as if they'd freely say or ask about (race/skin color related) things that no American would even think about mentioning.
having powerful language skills helped a lot- that got me respect and admiration (they always think German is difficult to learn for foreigners for some reason), and people were careful about what they said in my presence. the language skills are also the greatest asset you can have in dealing with the impudent blockheads in the immigration office- can't stress that enough. they're going to try screw with you if at all possible, so either go there with an incredible knowledge of the language, or take a German friend with you.
very many people in Germany are racist, though, in the sense that they're always curious about your skin color, your kinky hair, and why your palms are not "black" like the rest of your skin- as i mentioned above, really stupid stuff. oh, and they always want to know, "what are you called? people don't say '******' anymore, i know that- but what do people call you ?' ". i pretty much encountered this topic of conversation at any and every function/gathering i ever attended in Germany.
as for the issue with German women admiring black men.... well, i'll be a bit more blunt and put it this way: black men typically do not meet the creme de la creme of German women, because those women aren't looking for novelty men- they can find their partners among the German men. most women who date black men are typically either earthy "heal, feed, and love the world" types who are interested in African men, or those who've grown up around U.S. military personnel and who've learned about what they believe to be "black culture" from black American G.I.s stationed there. If that's what you want, go for it- there are scores of them to be found in clubs/discos, and in any town that boasts professional football or basketball teams.
that's all for now- if anything else comes to mind, i will write more.....
That's the point. There are hardly any AA tourists, probably because of the obviously missing genealogical ties, and the military is pretty much confined to a few locations. Other than that Germans are by and large not really used to dealing with AA's, which doesn't necessarily mean you would run into problems.
On the other hand, just yesterday I was reading about a white German married to an African woman, he told the kind of insults he and his family of four have had to endure even in his big city.
I am just mentioning this because in my experience Germans don't really distinguish between AA's and Africans, to them black is black.
So, if you want to go there, stick to the big cities where people are used to black people, like the Frankfurt-Wiesbaden-Bad Kreuznach corridor, Heidelberg/Mannheim, Kaiserslautern, Munich, Stuttgart, but maybe also a few very progressive cities such as Freiburg.
Unfortunately there have been cases where even in very crowded places such as metro stations minority people have been attacked and killed, mostly because in such places there is that strange tendency for bystanders not to intervene. People just wait for others to do something and at the end of the day nobody intervenes.
Sometimes I really am wondering about your views. AA refers to, as you noted yourself, African American. There are hardly any African Americans going to Europe in general. This has something to do with the problems we are having here ( poverty etc. ) and not with "genealogical ties". Americans don't travel that much anyway. We don't get that much time off from work as people do in Europe. People don't go to Africa because there's not much to see there. You go to a foreign country because you want to see and experience other cultures, and because you want to visit all those neat attractions they have. I've been to many countries regardless of personal "genealogical ties". Mexico, on the other hand, is right across the border. You don't need to fly there. So, I guess that's an exception. However, I have met black Americans abroad and they all loved it. It's not like people are close-minded or anything like that. "African American" is obviously a term that is only used here. I haven't said much about this, but I also do think German women are somewhat obsessed with Americans - whatever race. While I find being so obsessed with some nationality rather pathetic (), I would have to agree with them. Since there aren't that many black people in Europe, and I suppose that makes you "exotic", I find that to be a reasonable claim.
I can open the newspaper any day here and I will read something about someone who was killed. It's sad. Germany, France, and the U.K. have a fairly high immigrant population. Anybody can be a victim of violence. Luckily, they have better gun control over there. Maybe I am just used to more violence than you are, and that might be the reason why I think you are nitpicking here. The problems you keep on mentioning happen here and in other parts of the world every day. You tend to be overly negative, imo. Nobody's perfect. When you have different cultures living together, you will always have some kind of problems. But, I do think that Germany, France, the U.K. and others are doing just fine.
And the guy above me keeps contradicting himself.. time to make up your mind. Are you even American?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannoG
Thanks- i actually did mean to say white collar, not academic :-)
i think what happens is that they essentially look out for their own. though i did manage to get a job in the financial sector after finishing my degree there back in the late 90's, i was a total oddity in the bank in which i was working. i knew of one black German guy from Leipzig who worked there, but other than that no other (obvious) foreigners, and not a single Turk. i have to be fair and admit that the people i worked directly with were OK and very nice, but someone always had a racial remark to make (things like, "hey! have you been on vacation? you must have been, because your skin sure is tanned!"). i don't mind the racial jokes, but they were always so stupid- not funny, because people there lack the knowledge of American culture that makes these sorts of things humorous. it was as if they'd freely say or ask about (race/skin color related) things that no American would even think about mentioning.
having powerful language skills helped a lot- that got me respect and admiration (they always think German is difficult to learn for foreigners for some reason), and people were careful about what they said in my presence. the language skills are also the greatest asset you can have in dealing with the impudent blockheads in the immigration office- can't stress that enough. they're going to try screw with you if at all possible, so either go there with an incredible knowledge of the language, or take a German friend with you.
very many people in Germany are racist, though, in the sense that they're always curious about your skin color, your kinky hair, and why your palms are not "black" like the rest of your skin- as i mentioned above, really stupid stuff. oh, and they always want to know, "what are you called? people don't say '******' anymore, i know that- but what do people call you ?' ". i pretty much encountered this topic of conversation at any and every function/gathering i ever attended in Germany.
as for the issue with German women admiring black men.... well, i'll be a bit more blunt and put it this way: black men typically do not meet the creme de la creme of German women, because those women aren't looking for novelty men- they can find their partners among the German men. most women who date black men are typically either earthy "heal, feed, and love the world" types who are interested in African men, or those who've grown up around U.S. military personnel and who've learned about what they believe to be "black culture" from black American G.I.s stationed there. If that's what you want, go for it- there are scores of them to be found in clubs/discos, and in any town that boasts professional football or basketball teams.
that's all for now- if anything else comes to mind, i will write more.....
Yeah, that's very racist. How shocking. If you were American, you'd know that it is common here to ask people about their background. It's just a different way of asking. So you call them racist because they are interested in you? Really... if someone was racist, he probably would not bother talking to you. This was pretty much my experience when I went to Africa. People were very curious. I guess they were just all hidden racists. In my opinion, this just shows how ignorant you actually are. You just do not know how to deal with different cultures at all.
Last edited by Glucorious; 11-25-2011 at 11:31 AM..
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), I would have to agree with them. Since there aren't that many black people in Europe, and I suppose that makes you "exotic", I find that to be a reasonable claim.
In my opinion, this just shows how ignorant you actually are. You just do not know how to deal with different cultures at all.