[leastprime]

^i agree on this, too.
But they also don't pay for defense and other universal governmental services as border control, food safety, research, etc.

[beach43ofus]

Does anyone here disagree with having ALL able-bodied Americans paying some amount of federal income tax? 61% pay nothing...is that fair?

Does anyone here disagree with me having the ability to opt-out of SS, if I so please?

[Ghaati]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Does anyone here disagree with having ALL able-bodied Americans paying some amount of federal income tax? 61% pay nothing...is that fair?

Does anyone here disagree with me having the ability to opt-out of SS, if I so please?

I disagree. People who are receiving social program funds (such as welfare) - they're taking our money, and you want them to have to take more of it, so they can funnel some of it back into the pool? That's ridiculous.

Social Security is a safety net that only works if the majority of working people are contributing.

You already get more than you put in, assuming you retire between 62 and 70 and receive the maximum monthly allotment you're allowed to get based on your income history. Some of the "extra" is interest. But most of it comes from other people. SS is a pool - a kitty. The lucky winners will live long enough to get more out than they put in. The unlucky losers will die before they're eligible to collect, and all THEIR money continues to collect interest in that pool that the winners draw monthly checks from.

That's how Social Security works. If people opt out, there is less to spread around. Everyone's monthly check becomes reduced, and they start increasing the payroll deductions for those still working to make up for the loss. And of course that causes more people to opt out, which means even higher payroll deductions - until they realize the system is broken and they need to come up with some OTHER way to ensure that the nation's retired elderly folks don't end up rotting on the corner of your street.

Investing in stocks and bonds and annuities is great, if you can afford to do so while you're still working AND as long as there's a guarantee that those stocks, bonds, and annuities will a) exist and b) be valuable enough to support you once you turn 62-70.

Wealthy folks know how to invest, because they have investable assets. Poor folks wouldn't know a 401k from a war bond, because they couldn't buy into either even if they wanted to, so they don't bother learning about them.

MY social security check relies on my own contribution to the pool, but also to YOUR contribution to the pool, and the next generation's contribution to the pool, and the generation after that. The more you remove from that pool, the less someone in the next generation will receive.

You can see this for yourself on the Social Security website. The history of Ida May Fuller:

In the three years she earned social security before retiring in 1939, she had earned a total of $2,475. Of that, $24.75 was deducted for social security taxes.

She retired at age 65. She lived to be 100 years old. During her lifetime she collected a total of $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits.


She received in social security checks almost 1000 times what she paid in to the system over a 3 year period.

I double dare you to find any investment that can guarantee even close to that.

[leastprime]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Does anyone here disagree with having ALL able-bodied Americans paying some amount of federal income tax? 61% pay nothing...is that fair?

Does anyone here disagree with me having the ability to opt-out of SS, if I so please?

Disagree on opting out of SS. GWBush wanted to modify allow participants to chose how SS invests its assets and how to assume a different investing risk, , not for opting out.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by leastprime

Disagree on opting out of SS. GWBush wanted to modify allow participants to chose how SS invests its assets and how to assume a different investing risk, , not for opting out.

So, you wan to use the gov't to confiscate my retirement savings so they can give some to others...right?

Stealing others peoples invested labor is slavery! You are for slavery.

[leastprime]

^ i didn't say or imply anything to that. IOW, why are you implying that I/GwB43 suggesting anything about taking away the individual's trust fund?
YmmV

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by leastprime

^ i didn't say or imply anything to that. IOW, why are you implying that I/GwB43 suggesting anything about taking away the individual's trust fund?
YmmV

English please

EVERYBODY should pay some federal income taxes, & 61% paying nothing is totally unfair to the 39%

EVERYBODY should be able to opt-out of SS and/or Medicare...greater personal choice = freedom.

[wizrap]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

English please

EVERYBODY should pay some federal income taxes, & 61% paying nothing is totally unfair to the 39%

EVERYBODY should be able to opt-out of SS and/or Medicare...greater personal choice = freedom.

And what’s so ironic is that when programs are proposed that will be financed because we’re going to “tax the rich,” what actually happens is that the middle-class bears most of the tax burden. So many millionaires and billionaires don’t earn salaries—they have investment income or are paid with stock options that can receive more favorable tax treatment.

It’s no wonder the middle class in the US is disappearing.

[Ghaati]

Originally Posted by wizrap

And what’s so ironic is that when programs are proposed that will be financed because we’re going to “tax the rich,” what actually happens is that the middle-class bears most of the tax burden. So many millionaires and billionaires don’t earn salaries—they have investment income or are paid with stock options that can receive more favorable tax treatment.

It’s no wonder the middle class in the US is disappearing.

That's why those exemptions that benefit the ultra-wealthy need to cease to exist. So that they can finally contribute more. Earn more, pay more. That's how it's supposed to work.

And sure if you want EVERYONE to pay tax? Let's do it. A 10% flat tax on ALL income, regardless of its source and where it's located. ZERO deductions. You earn only $5,000 in welfare checks? Then pay back $50 at the end of the year. Did you earn $2,500,000 in combined salary, interest income, stock dividends, and the sale of your house at a $20k profit this past year? Then pay $250,000 in tax.

Sounds fine to me.

[HarryWhom]

Originally Posted by Ghaati

That's why those exemptions that benefit the ultra-wealthy need to cease to exist. So that they can finally contribute more. Earn more, pay more. That's how it's supposed to work.

And sure if you want EVERYONE to pay tax? Let's do it. A 10% flat tax on ALL income, regardless of its source and where it's located. ZERO deductions. You earn only $5,000 in welfare checks? Then pay back $50 at the end of the year. Did you earn $2,500,000 in combined salary, interest income, stock dividends, and the sale of your house at a $20k profit this past year? Then pay $250,000 in tax.

Sounds fine to me.

Add to that any non profit that has overhead reducing their charitable output to less than 90%. They should be taxed too.