[Thundarr457]

Keep these articles coming and maybe less people will move here. At least they aren't proposing a ban on gas stoves and gas furnaces like NYS. The chefs are freaking out since gas is the preferred method of cooking gourmet food. I'll gladly suffer higher insurance and hurricanes to woke politics in the deep blue states. My property taxes are a fraction of what I paid in NYS where if your house increases in value you taxes also go up. When I listed my house for sale in NYS they immediately raised the valuation even though the house hadn't sold and wound up selling for less. Sales taxes are lower too. Deep blue states never met a revenue stream they didn't like.

[JPrzybylski07]

Originally Posted by Thundarr457

Keep these articles coming and maybe less people will move here. At least they aren't proposing a ban on gas stoves and gas furnaces like NYS. The chefs are freaking out since gas is the preferred method of cooking gourmet food. I'll gladly suffer higher insurance and hurricanes to woke politics in the deep blue states. My property taxes are a fraction of what I paid in NYS where if your house increases in value you taxes also go up. When I listed my house for sale in NYS they immediately raised the valuation even though the house hadn't sold and wound up selling for less. Sales taxes are lower too. Deep blue states never met a revenue stream they didn't like.

The whole culture is a toxicity we must stop at all costs!

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by lair8

You're forgetting one crucial factor. Moving requires money.

You need money for gas, moving furniture, maybe a stay at a motel, first/last month rent upfront, security deposit, etc. And you should have an emergency fund on top of that. So all in all, you need at least $8-10k in the bank for a move.

If someone is living paycheck to paycheck just to pay rent, that leaves them with very little money to save toward a move.

Exactly, which is what happened when the recession hit stranding tens of thousands of former construction industry workers without work and during the pandemic with the tens of thousands (if not more) service sector workers who either lost their jobs or were furloughed indefinitely. Factor in that FL has what is considered the worst benefits for unemployment along with shortest term, virtually zero state public assistance, and minus Medicaid expansion (along with bottom feeder states like Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Kansas). The writing is on the wall and soon enough even the dumbest American will have figured out to not relocate here minus cashing out on a 500K+ home or to retire here without a solid bank account.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

Exactly, which is what happened when the recession hit stranding tens of thousands of former construction industry workers without work and during the pandemic with the tens of thousands (if not more) service sector workers who either lost their jobs or were furloughed indefinitely. Factor in that FL has what is considered the worst benefits for unemployment along with shortest term, virtually zero state public assistance, and minus Medicaid expansion (along with bottom feeder states like Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Kansas). The writing is on the wall and soon enough even the dumbest American will have figured out to not relocate here minus cashing out on a 500K+ home or to retire here without a solid bank account.

You uncovered FLA's secret plan...keep unemployed, uneducated, & unskilled moochers & dirt poor retirees, away from here....lifelong "takers".

Only educated skilled workers willing to actually work, & affluent retirees, need apply for Florida residency..."makers"

Those of us who can make it here in Florida, are done paying for societal parasites, so we've made this our exclusive sanctuary.

If you want to shovel horse manure in Ocala, or cow manure in Arcadia, we still have a few unskilled labor openings left, but if you quit or get fired, you're on your own....we don't do safety nets here, or the homeless thing (like San Fran, LA, NYC, Seattle).

Anyone can leave at any time, but to move here & stay here, you must pay your own way. That is the cold hard economic reality of coastal FLA.

The entire USA used to be like FLA, but now its just FLA, TX, WY, & a few other solvent states who require strong self-reliance. FLA is not for everyone.

[logybogy]

Florida is such a large state now in population that the answer is it depends.

Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Naples, Sarasota, and anywhere in the state on a barrier island with a beach are what I'd consider Tier 1 cost of living areas. Very comparable now with expensive areas in the northeast and not the best values.

Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa and their suburbs and exurbs are now Tier 2 where there is still some value in moving.

Tier 3 areas are the rural panhandle counties and central Florida rural areas where prices are still affordable but not any services and amenities and no real jobs outside of remote work or long commutes to bigger metros.

So moving to Florida can still make sense if you find the right spot but there will compromises. Its not like the 80s when any upper middle class person could afford living near a beach.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

You uncovered FLA's secret plan...keep unemployed, uneducated, & unskilled moochers & dirt poor retirees, away from here....lifelong "takers".

Only educated skilled workers willing to actually work, & affluent retirees, need apply for Florida residency..."makers"

Those of us who can make it here in Florida, are done paying for societal parasites, so we've made this our exclusive sanctuary.

If you want to shovel horse manure in Ocala, or cow manure in Arcadia, we still have a few unskilled labor openings left, but if you quit or get fired, you're on your own....we don't do safety nets here, or the homeless thing (like San Fran, LA, NYC, Seattle).

Anyone can leave at any time, but to move here & stay here, you must pay your own way. That is the cold hard economic reality of coastal FLA.

The entire USA used to be like FLA, but now its just FLA, TX, WY, & a few other solvent states who require strong self-reliance. FLA is not for everyone.

Bravo - well said!!^^^^ And I 100% agree! My grandparents came to Florida from Spain in the early 1900s for a better life. They were dirt poor, raised all their own food, etc. Had their family and all were hard workers who with little to no education became real estate owners, business owners, etc. and most did very well. Again through HARD WORK! I have nothing but disgust for "entitled" people who come here (or stay here) and complain. The ones who are here and complain need to go to one of those "wonderful" blue states that cater to every bum, cause we don't tolerate that sh*t here!

And by the way, my husband moved here from the midwest in the 1980s with a college degree and did very well here. He is retired now, but has always been a very hard worker. In retirement we are well set, we own two homes (Lakeland and Sarasota) both free and clear along with other assets, and have little to no debt.

As the saying goes "wherever you go, there you are." Honestly any place is what you make of it.

[NearFantastica]

I feel like if you exclude South Florida, then the state is on par with the Deep South when it comes to COL, very affordable. But South Florida included, the state is on par with Colorado and Arizona, not cheap but not crazy expensive either. Florida has been a cheap state for a very long time that is just now moving away from being cheap to average cost status. We can make the argument that in 10-20 years, especially with the population exploding, Florida will be just as expensive as California. But to say Florida is expensive right now, is just not accurate.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by NearFantastica

I feel like if you exclude South Florida, then the state is on par with the Deep South when it comes to COL, very affordable. But South Florida included, the state is on par with Colorado and Arizona, not cheap but not crazy expensive either. Florida has been a cheap state for a very long time that is just now moving away from being cheap to average cost status. We can make the argument that in 10-20 years, especially with the population exploding, Florida will be just as expensive as California. But to say Florida is expensive right now, is just not accurate.

In case you missed this Q3 2022 cost-of-living survey I posted earlier in this thread:

https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series

Florida ranks 33rd least costly, but most of that comes from housing, and most of that comes from SE FLA.

FLA index is 104.5, Colorado's is 105.2, Arizona's is 108.

If you take out housing, FLA moves way up the ranks of most affodable. Even if you could take out the housing in Dade, Broward, and Plam Beach Counties, FLA would move into the to 1/2 most affordable states.

I don't think this survey includes taxes.

Florida's cost of living is escalating faster now, especially in the area of housing, so to live below the U.S States' average, you need to avoid SE FLA, & Naples for sure.

Each city has pockets of affluence, and above average housing costs, but a lot of affordable places remain in FLA....away from the coast mostly, & North of Lake Okeechobee.

[LKJ1988]

IT'S CHEAP FOR ME. Home is paid for and no ins to deal with and no health Ins.

[Unsettomati]

There are three basic factors here.

First, tax burden. Not state income tax. State taxes vary, but states without income tax still have expenses, and they overcompensate in other ways. Now, Florida has a fairly low tax burden (11th - t10 states have lower tax burdens, 38 states have higher tax burdens). But one thing to remember is that the numbers aren't radically different. For example, Utah ranks 40th with a tax burden of 12.1%. That's $3000 annually on an income of $100k. Not peanuts, but it's still just $250/month. Personally, I'd rather live in a state where I want to live (be it Florida or Utah or somewhere else) and pay another $58/week to do so, than live where I don't want to live and have an extra $58 (to say nothing of eating the cost of a long-distance move). Happiness matters.

Second, incomes. Florida ranks low, 44th out of all the states, with a median income of $57.7k. To continue our Utah example, the median income there is $28k more per year. Even with the extra 3% tax burden factored in, that's an extra $25k more annually in Utah.

Third, cost of living. Florida comes in 33rd, with 32 states having lower costs of living. In the case of our Utah example, the difference is only marginal.

There are a lot of variables here, even beyond what I've listed here, but these are the primary drivers. Still, tax bracket and field and age and precise location in a state and other factors will further move the needle somewhat. But you can't just look at one subset of one variable (state income tax, for example) and think it means all that much. The calculation is complex with a lot of moving parts.

https://taxfoundation.org/publicatio...rden-rankings/
https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings...come-by-state/
https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series