[annerk]

Originally Posted by Tonyslaw

I also live in the cancer cluster and have a 5 year old daughter. To someone to preach moral values is a joke unless they pay my mortgage and living expesnses. Banks are scum bags and they do anything for a penny, thats business, period.

So it's the banks fault that you live in a cancer cluster? Somehow I highly doubt that they knew about it and lent the money anyhow. If anything banks run like wildfire away from anything like that.

Maybe you'd care to elaborate as to just why banks are scum bags.

[stars99]

Originally Posted by annerk

. Seems that those of us who are doing the right thing are going to end up being punished

That's usually how it works in America.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by annerk

So it's the banks fault that you live in a cancer cluster? Somehow I highly doubt that they knew about it and lent the money anyhow. If anything banks run like wildfire away from anything like that.

Maybe you'd care to elaborate as to just why banks are scum bags.

Maybe I can chime in. Banks got bailed out with tax payer's money (often people like me who are "doing the right thing" - staying in their under water house) because to do otherwise would have sent them into bankruptcy. Then they turn around and pursue your deficiency as if nothing happened.

In other words, they assumed the risk of a lot of soon to be defaulting mortgages by not enforcing common business sense when approving loans because they were seeing the same houses change hands a few times a year and naturally wanted to collect on the profits, then assumed even larger risks by turning all these mortgages into securities (profiting there too) and finally when it all came crashing down they still remained in business by way of being bailed out (sure a few local ones failed but not the majority of the largest ones). Just a year later most of them spread the new wealth around by way of handsome bonuses and raises, their stocks values are up and all is great (for them). The same guys that were wealthy before and wealthy now. Now that they have written off all the bad securities and mortgages, they can do whatever they want.

Talk about doing the right thing...

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by ognend

Maybe I can chime in. Banks got bailed out with tax payer's money (often people like me who are "doing the right thing" - staying in their under water house) because to do otherwise would have sent them into bankruptcy. Then they turn around and pursue your deficiency as if nothing happened.

In other words, they assumed the risk of a lot of soon to be defaulting mortgages by not enforcing common business sense when approving loans because they were seeing the same houses change hands a few times a year and naturally wanted to collect on the profits, then assumed even larger risks by turning all these mortgages into securities (profiting there too) and finally when it all came crashing down they still remained in business by way of being bailed out (sure a few local ones failed but not the majority of the largest ones). Just a year later most of them spread the new wealth around by way of handsome bonuses and raises, their stocks values are up and all is great (for them). The same guys that were wealthy before and wealthy now. Now that they have written off all the bad securities and mortgages, they can do whatever they want.

Talk about doing the right thing...

So you want to get a break on what you borrowed, because the taxpayers bailed out the banks? What about the other 90% of the taxpayers that are paying their mortgages? Do you think they all should get a break, or just you? What about the folks that have already paid off their mortgages? Money back from the government? How about people that paid for 27 or 29 years? All done? Why should you get an additional perk from the taxpayers?

What does being "underwater" have to do with anything? Did you get a special deal that says your home would only go up in value? Do you think your mortgage should be less? Did you have one of those special "flex" mortgages where you agreed to pay more than you borrowed if the value went up? Did you purchase your home as a place to live or did you plan to use it like an ATM?

Your value will be there when you pay off your mortgage, in 15 or 30 years. You did plan on living there, right? Sorry, but no sympathy here.

[muggums]

I don't agree with walking away just because your house is worth less. It devalues your neighbor's properties and further diminishes your neighborhood. Nobody wants to live next to an overgrown yard and trashy unkept house, it's not fair to those who stick it out.

In October we took a shuttle from Tampa to New Port Richey. For the entire hour and half we were treated to the driver's view of the mortgage crisis. He had somewhere around one million wrapped up in houses he intended to flip, but was not able to keep up with them and sell them soon enough to make the monthly payments. He was mad that the banks refused "to bail him out like they were"... I was mad that he is part of the problem! Don't borrow beyond what you can pay back!

[ognend]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

So you want to get a break on what you borrowed, because the taxpayers bailed out the banks? What about the other 90% of the taxpayers that are paying their mortgages? Do you think they all should get a break, or just you? What about the folks that have already paid off their mortgages? Money back from the government? How about people that paid for 27 or 29 years? All done? Why should you get an additional perk from the taxpayers?

What does being "underwater" have to do with anything? Did you get a special deal that says your home would only go up in value? Do you think your mortgage should be less? Did you have one of those special "flex" mortgages where you agreed to pay more than you borrowed if the value went up? Did you purchase your home as a place to live or did you plan to use it like an ATM?

Your value will be there when you pay off your mortgage, in 15 or 30 years. You did plan on living there, right? Sorry, but no sympathy here.

You are missing the point, which is that the banks got a break and a lot of people who are doing the right thing do/did not. Why are the banks so special? Because they have lobbyists? Because their voice counts more than yours? If this is true capitalism then no sympathy for them either, no?

Besides, we are not all the same. On average homes in the US change hands every few years. That is the reality. That is why we have the most active real estate market in the world. What you are preaching is 1920s logic.

I am not looking for sympathy from you. I don't even know you. I earn too much so I am in a sense punished (my mortgage is fixed not flex, I am not stupid). And please do not preach to me on the "investment vs. home" thing. What do you think securitising a mortgage has to do with? The banks do not view your home as a home, they see it as an investment. They dump the mortgage before your ink is dry. But it is OK for them to see it as an investment and when it turns out to be bad, they get bailed out. When you complain about your investment going bad, then you are bad person.

If you really saw your home as a home you would have built it from scratch with your bare hands. The moment you used money to buy it, the world around you (including you) sees it as something of material and monetary value, i.e. a possible and real investment.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by muggums

I don't agree with walking away just because your house is worth less. It devalues your neighbor's properties and further diminishes your neighborhood. Nobody wants to live next to an overgrown yard and trashy unkept house, it's not fair to those who stick it out.

In October we took a shuttle from Tampa to New Port Richey. For the entire hour and half we were treated to the driver's view of the mortgage crisis. He had somewhere around one million wrapped up in houses he intended to flip, but was not able to keep up with them and sell them soon enough to make the monthly payments. He was mad that the banks refused "to bail him out like they were"... I was mad that he is part of the problem! Don't borrow beyond what you can pay back!

Agreed. On the flip side, do not lend to someone who clearly does not meet the criteria. Borrower greed = lender greed in this situation. You only mentioned one side, he is part of the problem, true, but the bank is also equally part of the problem (actually a bigger part since they could have always said "no"). In a sense this was a JOINT business venture (him+bank) but only one partner in the venture got the govt help. Pervertedly enough, the other partner partially picked up part of the bill (by virtue of being a tax payer) and got stuck with properties he cannot write off without a bankruptcy plus he is also labeled as being the problem by people like you who do not think banks were.

[seeriously]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

So you want to get a break on what you borrowed, because the taxpayers bailed out the banks? What about the other 90% of the taxpayers that are paying their mortgages? Do you think they all should get a break, or just you? What about the folks that have already paid off their mortgages? Money back from the government? How about people that paid for 27 or 29 years? All done? Why should you get an additional perk from the taxpayers?

What does being "underwater" have to do with anything? Did you get a special deal that says your home would only go up in value? Do you think your mortgage should be less? Did you have one of those special "flex" mortgages where you agreed to pay more than you borrowed if the value went up? Did you purchase your home as a place to live or did you plan to use it like an ATM?

Your value will be there when you pay off your mortgage, in 15 or 30 years. You did plan on living there, right? Sorry, but no sympathy here.

Eloquently put!!! Thank you Lilybeans. We own our home outright yet it's worth less than we paid for it. Maybe the taxpayers would like to throw some $$$ at us as a reward for doing everything right.

[TANaples]

We are almost in this situation right now. We are trying to sell either our house or condo so I can move back to NY. Once one of them is sold, I'm out of here. Our condo has been on the market for almost 2 years. My husband is about to let it go into foreclosure. He's 61 and willing to let it affect his credit rating, THAT'S how hard it is to sell. Anyway, he knows how badly I want to move back.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by ognend

You are missing the point, which is that the banks got a break and a lot of people who are doing the right thing do/did not. Why are the banks so special? Because they have lobbyists? Because their voice counts more than yours? If this is true capitalism then no sympathy for them either, no?

Not all of the banks got a bail out. And in reality that "bail out" was a loan with interest, and as far as I know, all the banks taht took TARP money have paid it back at this point.

Besides, we are not all the same. On average homes in the US change hands every few years. That is the reality. That is why we have the most active real estate market in the world. What you are preaching is 1920s logic.

Actually the average owner occupied home changes hands every seven to ten years, depending on what section of the country you are talking about.

t looking for sympathy from you. I don't even know you. I earn too much so I am in a sense punished (my mortgage is fixed not flex, I am not stupid). And please do not preach to me on the "investment vs. home" thing. What do you think securitising a mortgage has to do with? The banks do not view your home as a home, they see it as an investment. They dump the mortgage before your ink is dry. But it is OK for them to see it as an investment and when it turns out to be bad, they get bailed out. When you complain about your investment going bad, then you are bad person.

Again the TARPmoney was a loan that had to be repaid.