Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You can't get a V6 at all on the Fusion. Lincoln Drive Control was available five years ago on the Mondeo (Fusion) by another trade name, not available in the states because Lincolns aren't sold in Europe. Adaptive LED, massagey seats, heated steering wheel, Bridge of Weir leather, and so on are available. Just not over here where there's Lincoln to hold features back since there's really no difference between the two otherwise. I mean, if any of those were standard features, it'd make sense the Lincoln costs more. But they aren't. They're all options, most of which are also available where features aren't held back to preserve the price discrimination function billed to discerning buyers -- if you want them, you'll have to pay more for the same car with a Lincoln badge and then pay even more for premium leather, massagey seats, LDC, adapative headlights, your THX audio system. You can then take it to a coach builder to have the frame stretched for a longer wheelbase if you so desire.
It's not a bad car by any means. That isn't the problem. The problem is its a Ford Fusion at the end of the day. Can you equip it with more luxury options than a Ford Fusion? Yes, you can. After paying the rebadge/repanel premium, Ford will allow you to pay more for additional options. There's also available V6, which is nice to have. It's analogous to the VW Golf and Audi A3. The A3 is the same quandary. Why pay more for the GTI? Maybe you have to have some option, perhaps AWD but now there's the Golf R for a few thousand more.
How many discerning buyers is Ford going to find for its Fusion equipped with a V6 and premium leather massagey seats when it runs $10-12k over the Fusion with turbo four and non-massagey heated seats, LED headlights, premium leather, THX system, and active suspension. Brushing $50k for a family sedan, even if its very well appointed, seems steep to me. If Lincoln is seeking volume, near $50k family sedans doesn't seem the way to do it.
Ford apparently thinks the MKZ is the new Lincoln. Nobody else really does other than Ford, but well what's different with the MKC and the Escape from the MKZ and the Fusion for it to be the crossover that saves Lincoln? Seems like nothing.
It doesn't matter if the Mondeo offered them first--Europe and NA are two different markets. Mondeo is near luxury in Europe and often gets cross-shopped with the 3-Series. Most Lexus models here in North America began as rebadged luxury Toyotas in Japan. If the Fusion offered these features alongside the MKZ here in the US, then yes there would be a problem. But it doesn't in this market, and most buyers here aren't aware the Mondeo even exists.
It's actually a Ford Mondeo at the end of the day, just like the Lexus ES is a Toyota Avalon at the end of the day. But that doesn't seem to be an issue with most.
Bridge of Weir is standard on the MKZ.
The Lexus ES350 is probably the most direct competitor currently to the MKZ. It sells well, always has, but it doesn't offer AWD, doesn't match the MKZ in available horsepower, doesn't quite match in MPG (hybrid or gas), doesn't offer LED headlamps, doesn't offer real wood trim standard, and it doesn't even have leather seats standard. If the MKZ is such a noncompetitive luxury car not worth the money, why in the world would anyone buy the ES?
I tuned in to Ford's sales conference call the other day and over 50% of the MKZ's sold so far have been the Reserve trim, which is one short of the top Preferred trim (trim levels are Premier, Select, Reserve, Preferred). The Reserve starts at $39K, so obviously there is a demand for these higher-spec Lincolns. Ford does plenty of market research before they launch a product, which is part of the reason they sell so many higher trim level vehicles and their average profit margins are the among the highest in the industry. I doubt they planned the MKZ and MKC without doing their homework first.
I think some of you are so quick to pounce on Lincoln for so long that the real and measurable progress being made is simply ignored. The brand has to have sustainable volume and rebuild its image before they can begin diving into niche segments or building unique platforms from the ground up. That means taking baby steps, which Lincoln is doing. Ford is hitting the two volume segments first, midsize sedans and compact crossovers. Don't write them off before they even have a chance to prove themselves.
Last edited by mustang84; 01-13-2013 at 07:02 PM..
It's an inch longer than the Escape, where are you getting stretched from? It's also still three years from being availability, expect a lot to change in that time. By then the Escape it's based on will be four years old (available Q2 '12) and due for a redesign. Odd timing to release the luxury version of the Escape a year or so before an all-new Escape should be coming out.
An inch longer is still stretched. We don't yet know how the interior packaging has been revised, but I'd be willing to bet front and rear legroom has increased. You also forgot that it is four inches wider, which is quite substantial.
Where are you getting three years? It will be available in early 2014, a year from now. New Escape likely won't be out until 2017 since it was just refreshed.
If sombody is stupid enough to buy this monstrosity, as soon as they carry anything in it that is long, like lumber, surboard etc, the tail lights will be useless once the rear tailgate is open to accomodate a long piece of anything being carried.
What a God auful design.
I said it in another thread concerning Lincoln, and this only backs up my contention.
Lincoln is on it's way out, and very soon.
Bob.
How many people haul surfboards and lumber in luxury CUV's? Seems like a limited demand, especially when there are larger utilities available that would be more suited to the task.
Last edited by mustang84; 01-13-2013 at 07:54 PM..
Entry-level (ILX), entry-level (ES), entry-level (A3, although also the Q7), entry-level (Verano), entire lineup (Lincoln). Note a difference? As long as Ford is happy with Lincoln occupying the #9 slot in luxury sales behind Infinity (a brand that was a laughing stock when Lincoln started its slide to irrelevance) it should keep on doing what its doing and pumping out nothing but Fords. 2012 was another good year for Lincoln, at least if they were trying to sell fewer cars in an upmarket in which luxury cars did particularly well. We'll see how the "new Lincoln" MKZ does, I suppose. Nice enough car, but I don't see it reversing the sales decline. It'll be just like the old MKZ and current MKS. Nice, but not worth the premium for enough buyers to bite to generate the sales volume to turn things around, and if Ford just sits around waiting for a resurgence in sales before building something that isn't a Ford to put a Lincoln badge on... well, I have my doubts that will ever happen. Honda and Toyota luxury makes probably aren't the best to emulate. Acura is second-tier and Lexus sales are falling rapidly having gone from #1 to a fairly distant #3 in the last few years. If the goal is to be a second-tier luxury make and tread water with minimal investment, none of this is a problem for Lincoln. If the goal is to become a first-tier luxury make as Audi is (has?) become they need to step it up. Nothing wrong with an entry-level crossover not being the vehicle to do it on, but what's in the pipeline that is?
It's amazing how rebadged Toyota's, Hondas, and VW's earn praise, yet Ford can't catch a break.
Lexus isn't rebadged Toyotas, they're generally unique models, like Infiniti. Honda/Acura you could argue are closely related vehicles. VW/Audi less so, just at the lower end.
Problem is, Lincoln wants to compete at the level of BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac, along with Lexus and Infiniti. Those are unique models, not rebadges (except for the %@#& Escalades anyway). Ford's entry into this space so far have been too closely related to Fords.
Lexus isn't rebadged Toyotas, they're generally unique models, like Infiniti. Honda/Acura you could argue are closely related vehicles. VW/Audi less so, just at the lower end.
Problem is, Lincoln wants to compete at the level of BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac, along with Lexus and Infiniti. Those are unique models, not rebadges (except for the %@#& Escalades anyway). Ford's entry into this space so far have been too closely related to Fords.
Look at the history of Lexus. But I digress. The point I want to make, is that rebadges are thrown around very loosely.
Every car manufacturer uses many of the same "bones" for their models up the chain. BMW and Mercedes are different as that is all they do, basically.
The thing these morons at car companies fail to realize is people like the name(s); B.M.W., Mercedes, Audi, etc. It doesn't matter if a Lincoln or Cadillac performs better, has better gas milage, etc. PEOPLE WANT THE NAME B.M.W....
I think the MKC concept is attractive as a BMW or Audi, but as a Lincoln?? I am not so sure.
The MKZ looks ok, and has decent styling, but the interior is nothing to scream over, i drove the new 13 MKZ and I have to tell you, the interior quality isn't up there with other luxury makes at all. The quality of materials was actually disappointing for being in a "supposed" luxury car. It almost felt like the dash and door panels could easily be put into any regular mid size car.
The MKZ rode and drove nice, but the MKS was the better car all around even though it's styling is bath tube like with no sort of flair.
Lincolns problem is that they have too many cars in their lineup, the MKC will be another addition to the brand that's not really needed.
At the most, they should build 3 different kinds of cars and focus on building each one with the highest quality of craftsmanship as possible.
1. Big flagship, long wheelbase, massive interior, 7-Series and S-Class like.
2. Small more mid-size car which the MKZ fits right into.
3. And the MKC size vehicle the Navigator should be dropped altogether, the idea of a truck like Lincoln is not that luxurious and really stupid to begin with, plus it's based off a Ford Expedition which makes the car even less luxurious and isn't fooling anybody.
I also understand that Lincoln is desperately trying to change it's image and wanting to appeal to younger buyers. but lets be real here guys, no young person from the ages of 25-35 will ever be that interested in a Lincoln because of the oldness that it carry's on from decades past. Lincoln is too late IMO, plus the name alone "LINCOLN" doesn't say "Hey I'm young and rich, and cool, come check out my Lincoln!" Cadillac on the other hand has truly evolved into a brand where young professionals have actually caught onto the brand mainly because of the CTS-V and now the XTS and ATS. Suddenly it's cool again to be caught in a Cadillac!
Plus the newer Cadillac's just look better than Lincolns and have a styling which has a certain character and sharpness to them where people of all ages are attracted to.
Lincolns problem is that none of their cars have a huge presence or bold design that Americans want in a car, such as the Chrysler 300. Young black men love the 300 as well as other Dodge vehicles like the Magnum and Chargers because it's big, big and simply bad ass looking.
Lincoln needs boldness, enough with the soft lines and uber roundness of it's front ends. Lincolns new designs might be nice and attractive to some people, but personally they all look too European, and not distinctive enough for people to say realize what kind of car it is, but everyone knows what a Cadillac looks like just from the rear end alone.
So to get past all this softness in it's styling, Lincoln needs to come out with a flagship car that will blow all other automaker away in it's styling, almost like how the imposing 77-79 Lincoln Continentals did with their sharp blade like fenders and signal lamps, massive hoods and the wonderful Rolls Royce like Grill and hidden headlamps, those cars spoke of class and dignity when image was everything.
Lincoln needs to get back to this mentality of building imposing strong looking cars. Maybe not as huge as the 70's continentals of course, but something similar where people will remember it's design for decades to come. Lincoln luxury to me should be equivalent of a Rolls or Bentley, it just has that stodgy old fashioned name plate and they shouldn't shy away from it, if anything they should embrace the classic luxury like the British do. There's a market for the ultra luxury that I believe Lincoln should try to tap into. I know it will be a very expensive process, but what does the brand have to lose? They've already lost out in a sense and might as well go big or shut down.
Their sales for 2012 were very low, barely limping by, all this marketing hype might work for them temporarily, but once buyers find out that their still isn't much of difference between the new Lincolns and Fords, many of these customers will simply head out of the door and go down the street to a Lexus or Mercedes dealer.
It looks nice...for a Ford Edge. It's not going to save Lincoln. Lincoln needs something to go up against Escalade, CTS, and 300.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
