Need electrician and have electrical questions (Ector: for sale, real estate, insurance) - Fort Worth - Texas (TX) - City-Data Forum

hopeinaus · 06-18-2009, 09:03 PM

Ok - so we found a house we like, made an offer, and the seller provided an older inspection report that says -

"house was originally wired with ungrounded wiring system....most of the original tube and post wiring is still in use..in addition, this house has Federal Pacific type panels...."

1) Can anyone comment on the above? Any experience with older wiring and the FP panels?

2) Can anyone recommend an electrician who could go do an inspection before we go any further with our offer? We want to see if house needs rewiring/updating/etc...

Thanks!

loves2read · 06-19-2009, 06:39 AM

don't buy the house
basically that house would not pass city code and the sellers should have to pay to bring it up to city code...
they probably don't want to do that

where is YOUR realtor in all this...
call the city the house is located in and ask for the inspection office--
see if you can get one of the city inspectors to answer your questions just be reading them the info over the phone or if you can take the info sheet there to get someone to look at it...

hopeinaus · 06-19-2009, 09:17 PM

thanks for the info loves2read. very confusing situation. one electrician has said it needs to be rewired, agent says it is no problem - just change the panels, another electrician says same. We have an electrician going to see it this weekend.

will try to track down city inspectors as per your suggestion.

anyone else with experience with these systems?

hypocore · 06-19-2009, 10:16 PM

Although it was many years ago (1988) I sold a house that was in my mom's estate and we had to have a ton of electrical work to bring it up to code or the lenders would not agree to finance it. We could have sold it as is, but the buyers would have had to find another source of financing.

Outlets had to be added to every room and they had to be outlets with grounds. Fuse box had to be completely replaced and some fixtures had to be rewired, also due in part to the need to be grounded. The outlets for the large appliances had to be rewired in order to have their own separate fuse, which they did not have prior. yikes.

hopeinaus · 06-20-2009, 01:42 AM

Hypocore- we are going to get an electrician in this weekend to look at the house. How much did all of this cost you in 1988? Realize that it may not be relevant now - but interested to hear.

Sounds like we might need to walk away from this house...despite the fact that we love it!

hypocore · 06-20-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeinaus

Hypocore- we are going to get an electrician in this weekend to look at the house. How much did all of this cost you in 1988? Realize that it may not be relevant now - but interested to hear.

Sounds like we might need to walk away from this house...despite the fact that we love it!

I am not even sure anymore....but I seem to recall it was pushing $1000 back then. It's not much in the long run today, but then it felt like way too much to be having to deal with. haha

hopeinaus · 06-20-2009, 04:21 PM

Thanks to you both. Will see what the electrician says and will try to reach Fort worth council this week.

escanlan · 06-20-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeinaus

Ok - so we found a house we like, made an offer, and the seller provided an older inspection report that says -

"house was originally wired with ungrounded wiring system....most of the original tube and post wiring is still in use..in addition, this house has Federal Pacific type panels...."

1) Can anyone comment on the above? Any experience with older wiring and the FP panels?

2) Can anyone recommend an electrician who could go do an inspection before we go any further with our offer? We want to see if house needs rewiring/updating/etc...

Thanks!

Hello hoeinaus,

From your description you have Knob & Tube wiring along with the FPE electrical panel. K&T wiring is a very old wiring method and was adequate for it's time period. Using common terms it consisted of one "Hot" and one "Neutral" wire to service outlets, switches, etc. This style of wiring is generally absent of the third equipment ground wire which is a safety feature in the event of a short condition which could potentially energize appliance surfaces and cause shocks.

Another issue with K&T wiring is that you most likely will not find an Electrician who has the proper training and skills to maintain it. As a result over time it can degrade and add other potential fire and safety risks. Insurance companies are shying away from insuring homes with K&T although some will. The premiums are generally higher than if more modern and safer wiring systems were used.

K&T wiring in an attic area is also not designed to be covered with insulation. As a result many K&T equipped homes have little attic insulation in them. This can have an impact on your heating and cooling bills.

FPE panels were installed in homes up to the early 1970's with some even beyond that. The problem with FPE panels were their design and manufacturing faults. These panels were known to have breakers fall out, not trip under a fault condition and literally weld themselves to bus bars. There were many issues with these panels and they, FPE, were actually caught fudging test results to obtain Underwriters Laboratory approvals/ratings. UL yanked their approvals many years ago.

There are still a lot of these FPE panels in this area. Of those I have inspected I have only found one that would have potentially been in good condition. I still told the potential buyer to have it completely evaluated and consider replacing it. With all of their faults I personally would not want to take a chance with them. You also have to look at the potential that insurance rates might be higher. If you ever have to sell the home you are most certainly going to have that written up by any good Real Estate Inspector. That could cause you a problem selling later.

As for the comments:

"thanks for the info loves2read. very confusing situation. one electrician has said it needs to be rewired, agent says it is no problem - just change the panels, another electrician says same. We have an electrician going to see it this weekend."

If anyone tells you that "it is no problem" then have them provide you a written and signed statement to that effect. I'm willing to bet you they are not going to do it!!

From what you have it is apparent that this is an older home. Did you have an inspection performed? I am surprised there have not been other potential issues found if the K&T and FPE are still there. If you have any questions and would like to discuss them or your inspection results please feel free to contact me.

Moderator cut: no advertizing, please

loves2read · 06-20-2009, 11:14 PM

I said to call the city INSPECTOR or CODE OFFICE--not the city council...

dead giveaway--they provided an older INSPECTION report--why do you think they had that available--
they had the house up for sale, had an inspection done that came back with red flags all over the electric system...
maybe they are older people on fixed income and could not afford to get it repaired--I don't know--but if they found out their house had problems with the electric that is SERIOUS--not something to still be flipping the switches on...

the agent was obviously the SELLERS' AGENT--not yours
why would you trust anything the sellers' agent says about something that is obviously an issue

I would certainly trust an electrician over a real estate agent about an issue like this...

and frankly if the electric is in this bad a shape and has not been rewired (and I know they have had problems with it before now--it is much more prone to power surges)
what about the other major systems like plumbing/sewer/HVAC/insulation/windows/foundation

have you made an offer or are you waiting to see how expensive the electric is before you make an offer?
well--you better check ALL systems--
in FL my daughter bought older home and part of the offer to purchase inclused wording so that the seller would pay for repairs deemed necessary after inspection up to X% of purchase price...

believe me when they start to rewire this house they are going to discover OTHER THINGS--that are going to need repair and they are going to be just as expensive...or more

you better post a photo of this house to prove why it is so desireable because unless it is made of solid gold--I don't see the attraction...

ChristieP · 06-21-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loves2read

believe me when they start to rewire this house they are going to discover OTHER THINGS--that are going to need repair and they are going to be just as expensive...or more

Having owned an old house that had not been updated and maintained properly, I say RUN AWAY!!! You will likely be buying the money pit!!

We found out at our inspection that the house had aluminum wiring, and the whole thing had to be redone before the sale could take place. The sellers were livid, but they knew no one else could buy it when it didn't meet code, so they did it. Then, once we moved in, we found there were tree roots in the sewer lines, a roach problem (because they never had any type of pest control done), raccoons in the crawl space, large, half-dead trees that had to be removed, etc. It was an experience we don't care to repeat!