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I answered a thread a while back from someone asking about Venetian Custom Homes.
I am familiar with Venetian Custom Homes. They are a true custom builder. You will not find the same floorplan in 2 communities. They have only been building in the Metroplex for about 5 years but already racked up a good reputation among homebuilders, homeowner and Realtors. They were featured by CBS 11 about a year ago for the best design on one of their homes in Clariden. I believe that home was part of the Parade of Homes too and won some award during that event.
Naima
Last edited by nsumner; 05-20-2009 at 12:25 AM..
Reason: typo
you can check tad.org under past owners and find their builds--
call some of the owners that have been in homes more than two years and see what they have to say about long-term followup and liveability
most people are willing to tell you if they have a positive or negative experience--
they do build a pretty home--these are some questions I would ask
do they always build with a piered beam foundation--even on spec homes
are they using radiant barrier decking and foam or cellulose insulation on spec homes
do they tape their outside sheathing and would they consider using radiant barrier sheathing on exterior walls
are they using copper or PEX plumbing
how long have their current sub contractors like plumbing, electricity, framing, trim, been working for them
will they give you a statement from their bank concerning their current financial worthiness
do they buy an extended warrenty for their homeowners or carry their own 1-yr (or even better 2 yr )warrenty...and what type of foundation warranty does the BUILDER--not the contractor--provide
Thank you so much for the information. Cost to build was going to be cost plus 15%. I found other builders at cost plus 10% but didnt' get as good a feel. To the questions from Love2read, most of those I asked but the one about plumbing, I will bring up with him. Also I will check TAD.org.
my 2 cents---and maybe some of these issues were discussed and will not be problems down the road BUT...
the problem with cost plus is that the builder basically has no incentive to keep costs down--
he has nothing to lose unless you default on the contract
he gets his and the more you pay the more he gets...
one builder we talked to about building home for us--said that it did not matter to him if he installed a $400 light fixture or a $1400 one--so we would not be paying markup past a certain amount if we wanted to upgrade in certain areas...
he was going to quote us a price based on sq ft and a certain level of amenities---and that was what HIS % was based on--if we went over that price we still did not pay him a higher fee...so we felt like there was a cap on his portion of costs, not an open well...
we just could not get the plan the way we wanted for the lot we were going to buy...
You KNOW that in TX--if you do not own the land, you should not pay anything until the home is completed and there is certificate of occupancy issued and inspection/appraisal done and you close with title company...
YOU would never pay a builder for portions of a build/supplies when he is not building it FOR YOU on YOUR land--if you did AND
if he were to go bankrupt, you would just be one of the creditors and not have any real way to recoup what you had paid ...
if he is giving you materials at cost + his markup and he makes mistake on ordering something --your cost could significantly increase--and his profit would as well...why should he profit from HIS mistake...
is he getting bids from his contractors on YOUR specific design or are they just eyeballing and giving him general rule of thumb as most subs prefer to do???
most subs don't know HOW to do a real cost based estimate for specific...
if he is giving you an ALLOWANCE for items like windows, lighting, hardware, trim work, appliances, granite, flooring, brick/siding, electrical, plumbing--then basically you have no way of knowing HOW ACCURATE that estimate is for what YOU want...
and probably it is less than you will wind up actually spending--
it can be sort of a one-two sucker punch combo--
they sucker you in with low-ball estimates of what it will cost to build--and tell you what your allowances are--but when you actually go to order/buy/price items you want--invariable the cost is more than the allowance...
you need a detailed spec list of what is going in your house--that is something the architect should be able to provide based on your specific plans and you need to get specific bids on THOSE ITEMS from the subs...
unless you have some type of experience with construction, you have NO CLUE what is a fair price to pay for anything...and just because it is on a bill of lading or order form does not mean it is a fair/market price to pay...
you want to trust your builder but you don't want to give them your ATM card and password...
there must be penalty clause in there so that he has definite incentive to complete the job timely (not talking about having some leeway for bad weather or other problems that could cause legitimate delays)--but you do not want the builder/contractors to string out the build job just to pad his pay
suggest you check out a great site related to home building called
gardenweb.com--building a house
lots of contractors/builders/home owners post their comments/questions about their own building experience...you have to join to post your questions but you can read all kinds of info without having to join...good info about kitchens and lighting that can help you become more knowledgeable about what are good/bad choices and costs...
I learned a lot from reading there over the course of several years...
Thank you sooooo much! Your information is spot on and I truly appreciate you willing to share it with me. I will follow your recommendations and check out that website.
if he is an organized builder he or his office staff should have inventory lists for every house they have built in past several years--
much of what they use because most builders with spec houses have a default type of style/brand/item they usually revert to that fits what the current style --(think Texas Tuscan)--exemplies...
You would not believe the thousands of parts that go into building something as complex and multi-systemed as a home...
he SHOULD have inventory lists for things in plumbing, electrical (like the light switches and covers) not to mention the larger fixtures inside and out, HVAC, insulation, framing, nails, roofing whatever...that his contractors/subs install but that is more iffy...
pick out a particular house where you like the level of trim/color/flooring/lighting and ask for the inventory print outs---so you can see what those items cost---at least that is a basis for comparison and for being in ballpark for current costs...
you should see bills for the concrete contractor, lumber, all the subs involved on a job
to get an idea of what costs were for his past jobs
if he tells you that his subs DON"T bill him, I would be concerned...Venetian is not a fly-by-night, working out of his truck/house contractor...if the company does not have any type of inventory system then it obviously has no idea of cost control...
he probably won't want to show you those but you should never pay ANY payments to him w/o seeing current inventories and getting lien releases from the subs as they complete their work...
ARE you paying for this in installments (either with a construction loan or cash) after buying the land outright--
or is he getting construction loan and you purchased after completion...
if you do the second way--how do you have any control over what he says the costs of the house are?
remember that builders can and do negotiate for rebates/cost reductions based on their quantities so a smaller builder probably is not getting the price breaks that a company like DR Horton or Highland Homes gets...and some of his rebates might not be visible on the purchase orders he shows you...
my 2 cents---and maybe some of these issues were discussed and will not be problems down the road BUT...
the problem with cost plus is that the builder basically has no incentive to keep costs down--
he has nothing to lose unless you default on the contract
he gets his and the more you pay the more he gets...
one builder we talked to about building home for us--said that it did not matter to him if he installed a $400 light fixture or a $1400 one--so we would not be paying markup past a certain amount if we wanted to upgrade in certain areas...
he was going to quote us a price based on sq ft and a certain level of amenities---and that was what HIS % was based on--if we went over that price we still did not pay him a higher fee...so we felt like there was a cap on his portion of costs, not an open well...
we just could not get the plan the way we wanted for the lot we were going to buy...
You KNOW that in TX--if you do not own the land, you should not pay anything until the home is completed and there is certificate of occupancy issued and inspection/appraisal done and you close with title company...
YOU would never pay a builder for portions of a build/supplies when he is not building it FOR YOU on YOUR land--if you did AND
if he were to go bankrupt, you would just be one of the creditors and not have any real way to recoup what you had paid ...
if he is giving you materials at cost + his markup and he makes mistake on ordering something --your cost could significantly increase--and his profit would as well...why should he profit from HIS mistake...
is he getting bids from his contractors on YOUR specific design or are they just eyeballing and giving him general rule of thumb as most subs prefer to do???
most subs don't know HOW to do a real cost based estimate for specific...
if he is giving you an ALLOWANCE for items like windows, lighting, hardware, trim work, appliances, granite, flooring, brick/siding, electrical, plumbing--then basically you have no way of knowing HOW ACCURATE that estimate is for what YOU want...
and probably it is less than you will wind up actually spending--
it can be sort of a one-two sucker punch combo--
they sucker you in with low-ball estimates of what it will cost to build--and tell you what your allowances are--but when you actually go to order/buy/price items you want--invariable the cost is more than the allowance...
you need a detailed spec list of what is going in your house--that is something the architect should be able to provide based on your specific plans and you need to get specific bids on THOSE ITEMS from the subs...
unless you have some type of experience with construction, you have NO CLUE what is a fair price to pay for anything...and just because it is on a bill of lading or order form does not mean it is a fair/market price to pay...
you want to trust your builder but you don't want to give them your ATM card and password...
there must be penalty clause in there so that he has definite incentive to complete the job timely (not talking about having some leeway for bad weather or other problems that could cause legitimate delays)--but you do not want the builder/contractors to string out the build job just to pad his pay
suggest you check out a great site related to home building called
gardenweb.com--building a house
lots of contractors/builders/home owners post their comments/questions about their own building experience...you have to join to post your questions but you can read all kinds of info without having to join...good info about kitchens and lighting that can help you become more knowledgeable about what are good/bad choices and costs...
I learned a lot from reading there over the course of several years...
Good post.
The other problem with cost plus is if you have a major redo of something that wasn't done correctly you are paying for it instead of the builder. Usually the sub redoes things at their cost but if they don't it's out of your pocket, not the builder's. I know a great Tarrant Co builder that only does home over a million who ONLY does cost plus because that clientele is so picky and chooses to redo things after work is done and that can't be at the builder's expense.
Also, for any allowances try to be as specific as possible about materials and do some homework yourself. I've seen an allowance for $10k for appliances on a million dollar home before and it ended up costing 2.5 times that. Anybody could've done that math up-front.
I'd also say pick out a builder that builds the style you want. If they aren't used to Mediterraneans and that's what you want, their estimates will be off. If they build only Tuscans and you want a traditional or Old World style home the same is true. Don't buy a lot until your builders look at it and have input from the architectural control committee if you are in a subdivision. This is ESPECIALLY true if there's a slope as you'll need to know about what kind of dirtwork and retaining walls will be needed.
those are good suggestions as well...
personally I would want to meet ALL the subs before signing a contract with a builder---not that he would probably change if you did not like one of them--but so they know YOU know who they are---
you would be surprised at how often the main sub does NOT come to a job site and actually do work---he is much more likely to be running three different crews on three different job sites...
so I would want some specifics about each of them AND their cell phone numbers...
and I hope you have an attorney with experience in real estate law draw up this contract---I would NOT use the builder's contract...
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