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OK...again, my comments have been specific to van camping in residential neighborhoods --
you brought it up and tried to make it seem like a viable option, and I'm explaining why it's not.
Even if Stepka is perfect and ideal at all times and in all circumstances
and even if everyone else also doing it is similarly perfect and ideal in their practices... it doesn't matter.
Whatever tolerance and forbearance by the public the FIRST stealth camper may have encountered
the growth in raw numbers since then has long ago drained the reservoir of good will.
Nope. At best it's a filtered version of that idea.
They need to leave the city they prefer ... but choose to stay even if it means living like this.
The rest of their spiel is an attempt to normalize their behavior. You can't.
Nice of you to tell other people where they can or can not live. Regardless that doesn't work. People have been moving from California to states like Oregon and Colorado for years to escape high rents. Now those states have become unaffordable too. Eventually there would be no place left to run to, to find low rent. The only places where minimum wage workers can afford to live, have no jobs.
Your simplistic answers are not going to solve the problem. The federal minimum wage for a full time worker is $1,160 a month. The US average rent for a one bedroom apartment is $951 a month. The rent plus utilities is more than a minimum wage worker makes. They would need three minimum wage jobs to be able to rent an apartment. And again moving to a place where there are low rents and no jobs is not a solution, unless they get government assistance.
Like it or not, the problem is only going to get worse. This is the future of this country.
Even if Stepka is perfect and ideal at all times and in all circumstances
and even if everyone else also doing it is similarly perfect and ideal in their practices... it doesn't matter.
Whatever tolerance and forbearance by the public the FIRST stealth camper may have encountered
the growth in raw numbers since then has long ago drained the reservoir of good will.
Parking permits for residents and guests are a significant source of income in some towns. The permits are free, but the fine for being on the street without one is usually at least $100.
Nice of you to tell other people where they can or can not live.
Should or shouldn't. It's entirely their choice to be stubborn about their reality.
They need to move where their skills (whatever they might be) can earn enough.
And if that still means living with others, sharing space and the plumbing... so be it.
Should or shouldn't. It's entirely their choice to be stubborn about their reality.
They need to move where their skills (whatever they might be) can earn enough. And if that still means living with others, sharing space and the plumbing... so be it.
There you go again with another simplistic solution to a complicated problem. Even if they could jam enough people into an apartment to be able to afford the rent, which in most places there are laws against that too, the greedy slum landlords would continue to raise the rent faster than wages are going up. So eventually they would all get evicted out of their sardine can and end up living in their vehicles anyway, but not before wasting a lot of money on disgustingly high rent.
I have been there and done that. It was a mistake that I would not repeat again. All it did was make my landlord a lot richer, than he already was.
Yesterday I viewed cheaprvliving's Cheap living for free. Not all of them were free but there were some very interesting posts. Coyote Howls rv park, near Why, AZ has daily, weekly, monthly and yearly rates. Yearly is $550. That includes a lot of amenities. Sounds really interesting.
It's hot from April to October and a lot of people go elsewhere then. You can get a yearly New Mexico state park pass for $225 a year.
The others are interesting also but these are the ones I looked closely at, especially the Coyote Howls.
I'd like to see Quartsize too. Seems a lot of folks stay there for little or nothing. I think I will invest in a good tent (good suggestions on the website), and other necessities, a camp stove,etc and check some places out this winter. Regardless of whether I really want to do this lifestyle of not, Arizona is such a beautiful state. I'm looking forward to visiting other areas in the state.
Often when I look out my front window at the sunset I just have to hold my breath in wonder. I have never seen such consistent beauty. Where I lived, in Minnesota, every once in a while there would be a beautiful sunset but they were few and far between. Here it is a natural occurrence that happens more often than not.
Minnesota has a lot going for it from spring through fall and there is a lot of beauty, but I have never seen anything like what I see in Arizona on a daily basis. I'm looking forward to seeing this view without the confines of buildings.
Should or shouldn't. It's entirely their choice to be stubborn about their reality.
They need to move where their skills (whatever they might be) can earn enough.
And if that still means living with others, sharing space and the plumbing... so be it.
During the recession there were many companies that downsized and people were forced out, giving them no option but to take lower paying jobs. My company was one of those and I had to take jobs that were half my salary.
I was one of the lucky ones; close to retirement age and having family I could live with until that occurred as I lost my house, being unable to afford the mortgage on my new 'salary '. It was a tough year.
A lot of the problem was that I was over qualified for the positions available. By the time things began to turn around a bit, thankfully I was retirement age and able to apply for social security. Now I have that and a pension but there were lean years.
There were a lot of people who were just young enough to have years before they could retire but had positions that had substantial salaries. Losing their positions was devastating to the lifestyle they had attained. I think if I had been in that position, rather than the one I was in, I may have taken what money I had and gone on to become a nomad. I don't know because it was not my circumstance. As it was I lost a lot trying to keep my house and belongings.
It's so easy to look at others and tell them what YOU think they should do. Every depression or recession has hurt a lot of people and forced them into adverse positions in life.
It's so easy to look at others and tell them what YOU think they should do.
And if I was the only one suggesting people do what they need to... you might have a point.
btw it's rather offensive to assume that everyone making these sorts of suggestions
hasn't also had to make the tough call or to choose some other path...
something that didn't allow them to live where or how they might prefer to.
At some point these "stealthy" folks will have to grow up and accept their reality...
and stop glomming off the generosity and indulgence of the folks who pay the taxes there.
The Great Recession certainly took its toll on many people, but I'm not sure that the majority of them ended up living in their cars.
I'm sorry, OP, I know you don't appreciate my posts, but I think that you or anyone else considering voluntarily living this lifestyle should understand the realities of stealth camping in residential neighborhoods even on an occasional basis. My comments have been specific to stealth camping in residential communities, and people in many areas don't want vans creeping in their neighborhoods, and I'm sorry, but the blackout window covers that the van life gurus advise don't do a thing to increase public trust. It doesn't sound as if you've ever lived anywhere where this has been an issue. Maybe you're not even thinking about parking in residential neighborhoods. but it was brought up in this thread.
I sincerely sympathize with those who've been forced into living in their vehicles for whatever reason (and purposefully adding to their numbers for the sake of adventure probably harms those who are actually stuck living in their cars), but that's not you or the other person here who's advocating "the life." Those who are choosing voluntary homelessness as a lark should be mindful not to contribute to what's become a serious social crisis. In other words, if you find yourself creeping around a residential neighborhood late at night looking for a place to park, just go to a motel that night, or if a motel goes against the spirit of "the life," go to a campground. That's what they're for, and you can afford it.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 11-06-2018 at 05:28 PM..
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