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Yes they can. Now go and tell that simple truth to the next "how can I afford" poster.
(This is where the misanthropes show up)
I haven't ever seen that. The underlying psychological will come up a fair bit though.
The economic aspect stands on it's own merits. (And I'm just refusing delivery on the rest of your points)
MrRational wants the whole balance sheet and income statement when OP just asked for smaller ways to economize and hasn't explained his/her living arrangements. Most adults, not raising families, need a space of their own. We can debate what that space looks like; but, most adults do not want to live with unrelated persons and create a load of stress in their lives (that ship sails in early adulthood when you are still being formed as a person and need all kinds of interaction). Does a single person live in a 3 bedroom 2 bath home in a sought after neighborhood (thus depriving the entitled "family" to a home in a good school district) or does the single person live in a 300 square foot flat in the city or a 800 square foot condo in the suburbs or a 1,000 square foot 100 year old house in a small town outside the city limits? Should the single person be deprived of owning an appreciating asset?
... Does a single person live in a 3 bedroom 2 bath home in a sought after neighborhood (thus depriving the entitled "family" to a home in a good school district) or does the single person live in a 300 square foot flat in the city or a 800 square foot condo in the suburbs or a 1,000 square foot 100 year old house in a small town outside the city limits? Should the single person be deprived of owning an appreciating asset?
This is an important point regarding not just "frugality", but of the housing market overall. Outside of city-centers with their high-rise condos or rooftop lofts, most American housing is intended for the nuclear family. This means a house that's sufficiently large for mom, dad and 2-3 kids... But not sufficiently large to accommodate an extended-family clan, or sufficiently small for a single resident (or even a child-free couple). We have been building housing that pigeonholes people into a particular mode of life. So for example even in a traditional family, when the kids become adults and move-out, the now "empty nester" couple is culturally expected to downsize. And if one of the partners dies, the widow or widower is expected to sell, evidently making way for a young family with kids.
Unfortunately so much of our civic-life and residential circumstances and housing-inventory date from the post-WW2 boom. Even in cities where there's plenty of land for new construction, this new construction is just a grander and more opulent version of a 1950s 3/2 ranch house. It has come to be engrained in our mindset, that such a house best fits the need of the plurality of the buying-public.
If I were Galactic Emperor, I'd try to create an environment where housing isn't just for traditional families, but which cates both to multi-generational clans and on the opposite side to child-free singles. There woudl be moderately-priced (for the square footage) 6000 square foot compounds, and 600 square foot "shacks".
Of course there are economic pressures that corral builders into building certain kinds of houses. Also regulatory pressures. Rather than telling builders what to build, I'd hammer away at the regulatory pressures first. This means re-zoning and maybe tax-breaks for building small houses.
Last edited by ohio_peasant; 01-24-2022 at 01:27 PM..
We agree almost entirely. A lot of adults don't want to live with their relations either.
And Adults raising families need a space of their own too.
This presents the recurring quandary: reconciling desires vs realities.
Something's Gotta Give (for most).
Well, I was reading another thread about what to do with their body after death. So, I ended up phoning my local cemetery. I think that is a slot I want to pre-purchase/pre-plan (because it's going like hotcakes -- at least the most desirable lots/slots). I prefer a slot with a view. -- LOL.
You can have my 3/2 (for a price) when I am ground down and slotted in my local cemetery (snicker, snicker) -- Ha! Eh, I may downsize prior to that. But, the territorial view is difficult to give up...
Jeesh do whatever works for you. Nearest Costco is 500 miles from my house. That little commute sort of negates any savings they might offer. I have been in a Sams as a guest. Frankly wasnt impressed, unit price was pretty much same as Walmart, they just had it bundled in huge quantities.
Depends what you buy. My mother had like choice of 7 grocery stores in a relatively small town. Her thing was shopping sales. Yea she could beat Aldi prices doing that as there was a LOT of price competition. Still took what seemed to me lot extra effort, but it was her hobby. Me, it was easier not dealing with coupons and sales and all that, just go to Aldi or Food4Less or whatever and buy what I want and not think about it any more.
And when am I going to eat all that food? It'll get freezer burn before I can eat it. Give it away? Sure. But why did I buy all of it in the first place?
I have a very small freezer and its full.
I don't need discounts on travel. Some people do, I don't. I don't need a Foodsaver.
My wife and I don't have kids, she shops at Costco, I had a costco membership before we lived together. Mostly I went in for the Rotisserie chickens once a week and would eat chicken off of that for a few days.
Before that, my friend that lived below me in my building and I would go together, he had a membership from his mom. We'd buy toilet paper, and split the package.
My wife and her (single) friend go all the time together. Frequently they'll come back with a very large piece of meat and I'll cut it up for us, wrap it in saran wrap in smaller portions, and she'll take 1/2 or a 1/3 of it. I remember my mom doing that too, these are huge pieces of meat even for a growing family.
I suppose I could have made my points more clear... but I didn't make any points about "family" anything.
My statement was about the 800lb gorilla of RE costs ($X ÷1 vs 2+) ... that the "frugal" choose to ignore
preferring to go on about their diligence with relatively meaningless life choices like paper towels.
You are right about housing costs being "the 800-pound gorilla" for singles.
But in most cities, a single individual earning the median per-capita income can probably find housing that would require them to spend 30 percent or less of their gross income, the usual figure real estate analysts say is the maximum one should spend on housing.
But you are right that this is not universally true. And also: Finding such housing may require traedoffs some singles used to growing up amid affluence would be reluctant to make.
There are, however, companies that are trying to address that issue through "co-living" — a dressed-up version of the rooming house. (I wrote this article two years ago last October.) I suspect, however, that as single childless adults age, they will be less amenable to such arrangements.
And in that respect, you have a point that they should Get Used to It if they really want to save money. Everything else would be tinkering at the margins.
You are right about housing costs being "the 800-pound gorilla" for singles.
I suspect, however, that as single childless adults age, they will be less amenable to such arrangements.
And in that respect, you have a point that they should Get Used To It if they really want to save money.
Everything else would be tinkering at the margins.
Couldn't have said it better though the basic issue is not in any way exclusive to singles.
I'll open and read your link later.
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But in most cities, a single individual earning the median per-capita income can probably find ...
I'll go so far as "often can" ... but I think the world of "probably can" has ended; maybe even 20 years ago.
Until we can reduce our population numbers back to the manageable it won't be getting better.
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to spend 30 percent or less of their gross income, the usual figure real estate analysts say...
The % of gross numbers touted are what is in the best interests of the the Landlord or Mortgage Lender.
They have ZERO ZERO ZERO to do with what's in the best interest of any tenant or buyer.
Having a percentage of this or that as a decision fulcrum is valid... but the individual needs to do their individual numbers.
Few want to to do the deeper analysis of their circumstances and choices needed; especially not in the lower income ranges. LINK
Last edited by MrRational; 01-25-2022 at 10:08 AM..
Any thoughts on frugality strategies for singles versus large families?
Don't buy what you don't need.
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For decades he's been a BJs or Costco member. For me (being single) the membership never made sense.
I was a member of Sam's Club for a long time - there isn't a store nearby me now, and Costco is just too dang overcrowded. But ... not everything is sold in overwhelmingly huge quantities/packaging, for starters. I would buy 6 or 8 cans of tuna or other canned/nonperishable foods in packs of 4 or 6, detergents and other household supplies, paper products. I had a freezer, so buying the family pack of meat or big packages of frozen food was a good choice. I'm a home canner, so seasonal buys on produce went into my canning jars.
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A supersized containers of laundry detergent last me more than a year, or a 24-pack of TP last me for months.
Ain't nothing wrong with that, if you have the storage space. I can store 60 rolls of toilet paper in a hall closet, or 24 rolls of paper towels in the basement pantry. If you don't have to lug your clothes to a laundromat, buying big vats of detergent not only saves money but saves on packaging.
Buying in bulk is smart if it saves you money in the long run. Like everything else when shopping, you gotta do the math.
Buying in bulk is smart if it saves you money in the long run.
Buying in bulk is smart when it saves you money in the SHORT term...
saves enough to justify having that $5 or $50 sitting idle in a closet for the next six months.
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Like everything else when shopping, you gotta do the math.
And the surface answer or commonly assumed isn't always the real answer.
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