Grafted fruit tree (growing, fertilizers, manure, 2014)

[Baike]

I bought a small grafted persimmon tree a few years ago (about Quart size Pot), it has been bearing fruit for two years.

I am thinking to plant a few more in my backyard, but don't really want to spend money on buying it (it is not really cheap).

I would like to propagate it by using cuttings, now my question is: if cutting from my existing persimmon tree, is it already grafted?

Thanks.

[Diana Holbrook]

If you make cuttings past the graft point. If you cut below the graft point, it will be from whatever the root stock is.

[North Beach Person]

Grafting fruit trees is partially an art and partially a science.

https://orchardpeople.com/grafting-f...been%20wounded.

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/orn...e-grafting.htm

When I was little the next door neighbor, who was in his 80s, spent his time grafting fruit trees. I wish I'd paid better attention.

Baike, you'll need root stock to graft the branches to from your current tree so you'll be buying trees anyway.

[Baike]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

If you make cuttings past the graft point. If you cut below the graft point, it will be from whatever the root stock is.

Ok, when I bought it, it was shipped in Quart size Pot (website said already grafted), now it is grown tree, how should I know where is graft point. Even when I received it in Quart size Pot, I don't know where is graft point.

Maybe I can just cut one branch from the top?

Thanks.

[Zoisite]

Originally Posted by Baike

I bought a small grafted persimmon tree a few years ago (about Quart size Pot), it has been bearing fruit for two years.

I am thinking to plant a few more in my backyard, but don't really want to spend money on buying it (it is not really cheap).

I would like to propagate it by using cuttings, now my question is: if cutting from my existing persimmon tree, is it already grafted?

Thanks.

No, it isn't already grafted. As you've probably figured out by now a grafted tree is composed of the parts of two different kinds of trees - below the graft is the stronger, hardier, more disease resistant roots of one kind of tree that (usually) doesn't produce very desirable size and edibility of fruit. Above the graft is a cutting (called a scion) from a different kind of tree that is grafted onto the rootstock and that part produces more desirable fruit than what you would get from any branches that grow below the graft.

Your already grafted persimmon tree is more expensive because it is a grafted tree that will therefore produce superior fruit compared to what you would get from a non-grafted tree.

Originally Posted by Baike

Ok, when I bought it, it was shipped in Quart size Pot (website said already grafted), now it is grown tree, how should I know where is graft point. Even when I received it in Quart size Pot, I don't know where is graft point.

Maybe I can just cut one branch from the top?

Thanks.

To tell the difference between the lower and upper part of the grafted tree: the lower part of the tree - the rootstock - will have slightly different coloured and textured bark than the bark on the upper part of the tree above the graft.

Yes, you can take cuttings from branches near the top of the tree. Since you don't already have rootstock to graft your cuttings onto anyway you have no other choice but to take cuttings and try to root them and start new trees that way. But be aware that any cuttings you take from your persimmon and can get them to take root successfully are not going to be exact replicas of your adult mother tree and they probably won't be as durable or disease resistant as the mother tree. They also probably won't produce fruit that has the exact same characteristics, durability, disease resistance, size and desirable edibility as the fruit that the adult mother tree produces.

You should try to find out exactly what species of persimmon tree you have so that you can research what kinds of problems that kind of tree can have when it is growing on its own roots instead of on roots from a different and more durable species of persimmon tree.

If you find that your efforts don't pay off and your cuttings end up either not rooting successfully or not producing good fruit, you may have to put out the extra money to just buy new trees of the same type you already have that are already grafted by professionals. Like the one you have now.

Here is a short tutorial about WHY and how fruit trees get grafted. Why are fruit trees grafted? - Hardy Fruit Tree Nursery.

And another short tutorial about what kinds of persimmon trees are used for rootstock (and why) and what kinds of persimmon tree cuttings are used to graft onto the different kinds of rootstock. Persimmon Scion & Rooststock Selection - Fruit & Nut Research & Information Center

Good luck.

.

[Arktikos]

You should be able to take either a cutting or an air layer of your persimmons tree. I wouldn't worry about graft point. It's low on the trunk and you should not have any vegetative growth from below that point.

[Jewel City Joe]

My first question is "how large is your back yard"? Persimmon trees can grow to a considerable size.

Grafted trees may start with root stock from one tree and that grafted to the trunk & branches of another. This is a Scion. Generally when sold there is a piece of colored tape at that graft and instructions explain not to plant the tree with that tape below the surface.(as the trunk stock may put out roots of it's own again)

Tip grafts on the limbs may come from yet other varieties of Persimmon trees. So if you take cuttings from the limbs the trees that come from that may be the stock used for those grafts. (and while it may produce a tree, it may be inferior for fruit, not capable of pollinating itself, and may not be a very attractive tree. (although cuttings from it could be good make good tip grafting stock)

In short, these grafted Persimmon trees are a way of having a self pollinating tree. Persimmons used to be sold in sets of three so that at least one of the three would pollinate the other trees. Persimmon trees are a type that is of a gender. (male & female)

I would suggest you look closely to see if they state the height the tree will grow to.

[Jewel City Joe]

I once belonged to the "American Home Orchard Society" when I had a
small orchard. I learned so much about grafting there with the
information in their site.

A lot of grafting stock is indexed by number for root stock, trunk
stock, limb & tip stock. Orchardist would speak of the trees they
produced and name the components by these numbers used to graft it
together. A lot of the Nursery Catelogs for the home gardener do not
list any of this. You have to get with the nurseries who supply to
the professionals or master gardeners in order to have access to
these materials.


Grafting isn't that difficult to learn but there is an optimal time
of year to do it. Much like pruning, there is pruning for production
and pruning that enables harvesting.(where you create spaces those
who are picking to access the inner portions of the tree)

My experience with Persimmons has been picking them up off the ground
when they were ripe enough to fall. The trees were so large it
seemed you needed an extension ladder to reach them. If you allow
the tree to get to the size you can handle, cutting the top off the
top vertical branch will remove the "terminal bud". This produces a
plant hormone called "auxin" which is what enables the tree to keep
growing upwards. So it shouldn't grow much taller and then you can
prune it in a way that it may grow fruit that can be reached. The
pruning allows new limbs to grow and this new wood is where most of
your fruit will grow. You will need to fertalize the tree and
preferably with natural fertilizers. It would be wise for you to
learn what the PH of the soil you are going to plant in is. Your
Persimmon will likely state the ideal PH.

PH can be adjusted with certain chemicals such as alum or soda. The
commercial fertilizers will generally have three numbers such as 10-
10-10. The first number is Nitrogen, the second Phosporus, and the
last is potassium. Calcium, Magnesium, and Iron are also important.
Animal manure fertalizer remains a standard as these elements are
robust in it. But beware of manure from birds such as chickens &
turkey or other fowl as there is much methane in them and it should
be composted first before using. Free ranged cattle droppings may
contain a healthier quantity of bacteria which will improve soil
quality.

The Home Orchard Society (went out of business in 2020)

https://www.homeorchardsociety.org/

Their forum:

https://forums.homeorchardsociety.org/