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aries63, you mirror my wife's comments about the show capturing the bits of local history and scripting. It had little of the feel of the prior seasons.
I thought the guests were (or acted) amazingly ignorant of their histories. The woman whose family stories had her grandfather involved in shooting (depending on what you believe) Billy the Kid. I guess she never bothered to look at the fact that the grandfather was born two years before the incident. Your Chester Nez comments were spot on, as I'd be very surprised that anyone who thought s/he might be related to him knew so little about a local treasure.
I really liked the episode, and I really think this show has improved over previous seasons.
Yes, I do think some of the "unknown information" was scripted, and I expect that in any reality show from Antiques Roadshow to American Pickers.
The story of the Navajo code talker: wow.
The story of the colonist woman attacked and taken prisoner by Indians in NJ: wow.
The story of the guy whose Spanish colonist ancestor contributed to the American Revolution: wow.
I did yawn and zone-out a bit on the overly-long Pancho Villa thing. And I think it turned out that the woman's ancestor had no connection to Pancho Villa. Great, so why did we just talk about him for 20 minutes?
But overall, I really enjoyed the stories they showed.
I know that Parker kid that was on there. His family is an old one here too and our families go way back. One of my brothers is best friends with one of his uncles for many years. I had a crush on his grandpa Johnny when we were in 7th grade. lol Their family lives about 15 mi. from here but families from both towns have always intermingled, intermarried and had various rivalries.
I thought the Poncho Villa thing was too drawn out as well, especially since it had nothing to do with her family. It WAS good for her to get the family info she did though. And put rest to the rumor, I guess.
I had my doubts about the Navajo Code Talker segment. She just didn't seem as surprised or excited at what all she found out and how could she NOT know all that about someone that close. It's not like he was from the 1800s or something.
I wonder if they could help any of us with our 'brick walls'. I have a few I'd LOVE to get broken down!
I missed the first 5 minutes last night (and I'm ticked that my cable providers has not put the show on on-demand yet!)
I am seeing the formulaic issue that other posters mentioned a lot more now. I really think most of the guests are people who already knew about their ancestors, and they just play dumb for the show. Then maybe the genealogist throws in a couple of new things they didn't previously know. they also seem to be very focused on "famous" ancestors. I guess the show's maker think that since the guests are not celebrities, that they MUST find guests' ancestors who were celebrities. I like interesting stories tied into history, not just connections (or lack of connection) to famous people!
But if I consciously put that aside, I can still enjoy the show. I just know that if they ever some to my area, I won't bother applying to be on the show, since I haven't already traced my roots to someone famous.
Wow, I cried right along with the guest and the genealogist at the end of the Tuskegee story!
I mad I missed the first couple episodes this season.
I also do feel that much of the show is scripted but I still enjoyed it. FWIW I didn't particularly "get" the sadness about the great grandfather who was involved in the Tuskeegee Experiment. I thought they said he died in 1940 and if so, he would not have been able to be cured anyway.
It is sad that the government took advantage of those who especially were not treated after penicillin was introduced, but this is a well known event in American History IMO. The guest already knew her great grandfather was a participant in the "study." I thought maybe she didn't know that before watching the episode but she did so there was no revelation there. It is sad they could not find the death certificate or grave though. I have found that many small, southern locales did not record the deaths, marriages and births of black people regularly in the early part of the 1900s. It has really put some blocks on my own research for some SC ancestors and for my husband's GA ancestors. FWIW, they also didn't regularly record information for people considered poor white trash. I knew older white people when I worked in senior housing in GA who had never had a birth certificate issued and they had to go to great lengths to get one and especially renew their licenses when the law was passed there that made having a birth certificate mandatory for getting your driver license renewed. It took almost a year for us to get a birth certificate for a resident who was born in 1942.
I also wonder if they could help me with a couple road blocks. I have a gg grandfather who, like was thought of one of the guests last night, abandoned my great grandmother when she was about 13 years old (she had 5 brothers and sisters as well). She told me he changed his name and she never saw him again until he died in the 1960s and he had placed her name (she was the oldest child) as his next of kin on his information at a job he worked. She ended up having to pay for his funeral and hospital bills and she was super POd about it. She never told me what name he was going by so I have no records of him after 1920.
FWIW I didn't particularly "get" the sadness about the great grandfather who was involved in the Tuskeegee Experiment. I thought they said he died in 1940 and if so, he would not have been able to be cured anyway.
It is sad that the government took advantage of those who especially were not treated after penicillin was introduced, but this is a well known event in American History IMO. The guest already knew her great grandfather was a participant in the "study." I thought maybe she didn't know that before watching the episode but she did so there was no revelation there.
Wow, I cried along with the guest and genealogist. You don't "get" why it's sad? I wasn't crying because he might have been otherwise cured. I cried because he was a part of this horrific, unethical human experiment conducted by our government. But I was especially crying (as I suspect they were too) because this poor man's experience resulted in the most significant development in human medical research. Anyone who has taken any college course in research learn about the ethics rules for research with human subjects, and we all learn of the Tuskegee experiment. Because those men and their families suffered, millions of people who get involved in human research (medical or behavioral) have rights regarding informed consent, and then countless of other people benefit as a result of that research. The standards established for informed consent and ethical treatment may have never been set up if it were not for those men. So yes, I cried, and I'd cry again.
Wow, I cried along with the guest and genealogist. You don't "get" why it's sad? I wasn't crying because he might have been otherwise cured. I cried because he was a part of this horrific, unethical human experiment conducted by our government. But I was especially crying (as I suspect they were too) because this poor man's experience resulted in the most significant development in human medical research. Anyone who has taken any college course in research learn about the ethics rules for research with human subjects, and we all learn of the Tuskegee experiment. Because those men and their families suffered, millions of people who get involved in human research (medical or behavioral) have rights regarding informed consent, and then countless of other people benefit as a result of that research. The standards established for informed consent and ethical treatment may have never been set up if it were not for those men. So yes, I cried, and I'd cry again.
I understand all of what you wrote and how you view it. I think because I felt that the segment was kind of odd being that it was portrayed as if she didn't know her great grandfather was in the study. Also it seemed that they were trying to blame the study for his death when by all accounts it was not.
I do think it and other cases of black Americans being experimented upon (some of the worse IMO was the "father of gynecology") makes black people in this country still less trustful and hesitant to get medical treatment. So I see the tragedy of the men involved, the tragedy of the disease itself (I actually have found via research that one of my great grandmothers, one who I knew and who didn't die until 2003 had 4 children born with congenital syphillis, her husband was abusive and a cheater and gave her syphillis as well, she was cured in the 1940s after penicillin was introduced but the 4 children died within 2 years of being born), and I appreciate that it was instrumental in ensuring that there were laws passed to stop people from being victimized in such a way and used like a common animal.
I just felt it was not a genuine portrayal of her situation. Like others have said, I thought it scripted, but I loved the story and I am sad she didn't get to see her relatives death certificate or know where he was buried. I think that that was probably the main reasons why she was there as most black people are very well aware of the Tuskegee Experiment and what it was about and I'm sure she knew all of what was shared with her about it due to it being rather common knowledge and VERY well known in Tuskegee itself, which is where she was from.
It sounds like we pretty much agree then. It was just that you posted that you did not "get" the crying about the great grandfather, when I saw many reasons to cry. Yes, the setup of guests for the stories is scripted, but I do not believe that crying was scripted. Even thought he Tuskegee story was nothing new to me or to many of us, that didn't make it any less moving.
Hell, I cried for the Philippines story too, when the guy's mother at 2 years old was in the same little town on the same Philippine island with her future father in law who happened to be serving there in WWII.
I enjoyed the latest episode. Certain segments I enjoy better than others, I think mostly due to how the person being talked to responds. I think part of this is simply that some people don't re-act well while on camera.
I do see some of the scripted aspects of the show... I'm a bit less critical since I believe some of it is due to people who probably already have some of the ideas of who their ancestors were but are just trying to get the stories confirmed. I think a lot of the guests probably take the local history and stories with a grain of salt and might actually be genuine expressions of surprise when they find out some of it pans out (or doesn't).
Did anyone watch last night? I knew about the Trail of Tears, but I had no idea that a lot of Cherokees owned black slaves, and they got dragged along with their Cherokee owners on the Trail of Tears. Very interesting. I'm a history nerd, and I love when these genealogy shows introduce me to a piece of history I had not been aware of. Here there were these people being terribly oppressed, and in turn, they were oppressing others. It was cool how many of the former slaves of the Cherokee later got adopted as tribe members though. I do wish they had done DNA testing on that woman--it was still possible that she had some Cherokee DNA, especially since her black ancestors were owned by the Cherokee for so long. They just seemed to neglect the whole idea of the DNA testing.
I am a little annoyed by the litter filler snippets in between the more detailed stories. They usually give no real information ("Call the local historical society in the are that you're researching." "Oh wow, thanks for that great tip!") If they got rid of those snippets, they could do a whole other detailed story with a guest. I guess it's just a way of throwing a bone to the people who show up and wait in the long lines; you might get on TV for 20 seconds. I really don't know who would show up at a Roadshow and wait in all those lines, when it's pretty evident that the only people who get to have research done for them are the people who wrote in months earlier and got pre-approved. And now we are pretty sure these are people who really want a brick wall broken down, but people who pretty much already know their ancestor story and have to act like they don't. Still, I can overlook the staged aspect of the show, if they actually present interesting info. But those snippets are just a waste.
I watched last night too and enjoyed the story about the Andersonville POW. That was fascinating that her ancestor may have been "Limber Jim" as I had heard of him before and that was pretty cool IMO.
On the Trail of Tears and the slavery amongst the Cherokee (and other native American tribes), I knew about them owning slaves and ironically I have been investigating whether or not my husband's grandfather was a descendant of a "freedman" of a native tribe, either Cherokee or Chickasaw. There is a rumor in his family that they were but there is a very small paper trail on that side of his family for his grandfather. I have never gotten past his grandfather on that side, which is rare for me (I am a crazy maniac genealogist lol) and it upsets me because I like to get back at least to a 2nd or 3rd great grandfather.
And I also wondered why they didn't do a DNA test for that guest. Last year they did DNA tests. But usually from information I have read, blacks who were owned by native tribes were much less likely to have native DNA than those owned by whites to have European DNA. Evidently the natives didn't "mix" as much with their slaves as whites did.
I remember years ago the actor Don Cheadle found out that he was a descendant of a family owned by the Chickasaw nation. His family actually received land as reparations for their enslavement after the Civil War but they were not freed until after 1865. He was the most "black/African" person that Henry Louis Gates had ever had on the show - I think it was either African American Lives or Finding your roots on PBS. He was over 98% African.
On her native ancestry, I will admit I found it odd as a black person that all of a sudden 5 years ago she decided not to be black (or white) and just decided she was native American based on someone's picture she saw. It was odd IMO for a bi-racial person to do. She said she was 'raised white' so would be white with her mom, then when she was with her dad she identified as black. I don't see what was so wrong about her just claiming her white/black bi-racial identity and I wonder if she was disappointed to not have any discernable native ancestry or if she will do a DNA test later and claim to be a native. But I was happy that they did a segment on the Cherokee Freedman as I do think that it is a subject not readily discussed. I had never heard about it as well until I saw the show with Don Cheadle mentioned above and I did a lot of digging and reading into the subject based on that show as prior to me watching that my husband's relatives had said their dad was owned by Indians and I never really took it seriously.
I also didn't enjoy the snippets of "information" which was just basic stuff most people can figure out IMO. I think they should provide more information on researching outside of internet based sources but give more information than "just call." That is not informative. I really think they should share how to go about getting pension application files. They share those a lot on the show. They mentioned the pension application for the guest whose ancestor fought in the Battle of San Jacinto as well. I have recently had a renewed interest in military research based on the other thread I recently posted where I found 4 ancestors who had fought in the Civil War and who I cannot find anything else out about their father in particular. I would like to read their pension application files. At least 3 of them obtained a pension and so I am trying to find out how to get a copy of them. Information on the NARA site is not very informative IMO on this process and I think it would be good for them to share about more of the sources they use on Genealogy Roadshow.
Overall though, I enjoy the show and am happy it is continuing.
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