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Old 06-28-2012, 11:44 AM
 
5,033 posts, read 5,868,355 times
Reputation: 3218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
You just described my entire state, Michigan. Our cities are dead or dying, Detroit, Flint, Muskegon etc. In fact Detroit is dragging our whole state down with its overwhelming problems. Whole sections of Detroit are literaly abandoned. People in the cities are dependent upon welfare, and the rest of the nation bailed out our states primary industry. Our rural areas are dependent on farm subsidies, and unemployment-welfare benefits as well. Our young people are leaving by the tens of thousands. Despite all this many of us like living here and stick it out. Michigan is a pretty state, our climate is harsh, but many of enjoy that as well. We just live with the hope that this will end eventually and everything will stabilize. Eventually with people leaving like they are the amount of jobs will come close to matching the population. No one knows how long that will take.
It must have worked. The big three have restructured and seem to be kicking but now, and their market share relative to foreign car companies is higher than it has been in a long time. Michigan still has major issues and problems, but the last year and a half or so, has seen things move in a positive direction, and economically growing faster than most states (although that's considering it was hit harder than just about anywhere else).
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:13 PM
 
237 posts, read 238,986 times
Reputation: 190
Is your hometown becoming obsolete?

Yes, my hometown is Rocky Mount, NC. The current unemployment rate is 12.4%. Just look at the comments made about Rocky Mount on the North Carolina forum on this website, none of the comments are positive. The crime rate is staggering. It did not used to be this way, Rocky Mount was home to Hardee's Food Systems and Centura Bank.

Ironic that only 55 miles away is Raleigh, the one of the fastest growing and educated metros in the nation.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
3,016 posts, read 3,024,814 times
Reputation: 4307
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
All of Michigan is becoming obsolete? This sounds a bit extreme. I know times are hard over there, but wow...


I dont think its an exageration. Major employers have not hired in years, decades at places like GM. As a consequence most people under 50 have really lousy jobs, or no job at all. Only the truely gifted, ambitious or connected people have made a decent life here. If your a "regular Joe" you are up the creek here without the preverbial paddle. I know so many people who are unemployed, it is ridiculous. The debaucle of 2008-2009 cost our state dearly, and many people lost their jobs, making a bad situation a catastraphy. Even though the news says its getting better here you would never know it. Even if the numbers are a bit better, in 6 months it will fall back as it always does. There are no real recoveries here. Those who find jobs accept very low wages and part time. Many cannot find work at all. If your work record is less than perfect you could be unemployed for years, or soon asking the question "would you like fries with that sir?" A drive through many towns in our state will reveal how bad it is. Storefronts shut up, many many homes with tall grass and yellow papers on the door. For sale signs everywhere. The problems or our cities are legendary, Detroit and Flint were both #1 and #2 respectively for most violent cities in the nation. Detroit is hopeless, even an economic recovery would not fix that town. It is ruined both socially and physically. Our states population is getting older on average, as many of our young people move away to escape the consequences of staying here. I dont blame them, a life of living hand to mouth does not sound that appealing at 21 does it. There are websites out there for Michigan ex-pats now living in other states, how many states have that? Not many Im sure. Michigan is a state rich in natural resources, and natrual beauty, it should not be like this. Michigans situation should stand as a warning to the rest of the nation to never allow you economy to be so dependent upon one industry. We are like a ship broken on the rocks, we warn others to steer clear of this path. Economic diversification is essential to economic stablilty. Michigans fate is proof of that.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:10 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 1,416,240 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Have people just move to adjacent suburban areas?

some yes but the county as a whole is down population wise as well. the county has lost 4,000 residents since the early 80s. there are 4 high schools outside the immediate city. only one of which has seen sustained enrollment. one of the 4 has seen it's own enrollment greatly decline as well. a second was suppose to grow by leaps and bounds back in the 90s due to growth outside the city but sadly all that was not to be as the school in question grew to about 900 kids in the late 90s and in the last 10 years fell back to the mid - 700s.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
174 posts, read 126,977 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I dont think its an exageration. Major employers have not hired in years, decades at places like GM. As a consequence most people under 50 have really lousy jobs, or no job at all. Only the truely gifted, ambitious or connected people have made a decent life here. If your a "regular Joe" you are up the creek here without the preverbial paddle. I know so many people who are unemployed, it is ridiculous. The debaucle of 2008-2009 cost our state dearly, and many people lost their jobs, making a bad situation a catastraphy. Even though the news says its getting better here you would never know it. Even if the numbers are a bit better, in 6 months it will fall back as it always does. There are no real recoveries here. Those who find jobs accept very low wages and part time. Many cannot find work at all. If your work record is less than perfect you could be unemployed for years, or soon asking the question "would you like fries with that sir?" A drive through many towns in our state will reveal how bad it is. Storefronts shut up, many many homes with tall grass and yellow papers on the door. For sale signs everywhere. The problems or our cities are legendary, Detroit and Flint were both #1 and #2 respectively for most violent cities in the nation. Detroit is hopeless, even an economic recovery would not fix that town. It is ruined both socially and physically. Our states population is getting older on average, as many of our young people move away to escape the consequences of staying here. I dont blame them, a life of living hand to mouth does not sound that appealing at 21 does it. There are websites out there for Michigan ex-pats now living in other states, how many states have that? Not many Im sure. Michigan is a state rich in natural resources, and natrual beauty, it should not be like this. Michigans situation should stand as a warning to the rest of the nation to never allow you economy to be so dependent upon one industry. We are like a ship broken on the rocks, we warn others to steer clear of this path. Economic diversification is essential to economic stablilty. Michigans fate is proof of that.
Michigan's situation is indeed a sad one. We moved to metro Detroit in 2006 from southern California, and now live in a small town 40 minutes northeast of Grand Rapids.

Basically, it seems much of the state is dying a slow death. Poverty and crime abound, unfortunately. The crime has EXPLODED this year in the small, pretty town that we live in. Not just petty crime either--several armed robberies, murders (two shootings), attempted murder (stabbing at our local corner gas station), arson...all since January. The night before last, my sister and bro-in-law's cars were broken into, and they live in what is arguably considered the best neighborhood in town.

It's incredibly sad, because we have fallen in love with the beauty of this state. The economy is slowly, inch by inch, trying to recover, but it's a long hard road. Many people don't realize that MI was already in a long one-state recession BEFORE the Great Recession hit. It's like looking up to see the bottom...

I hold great hope for Michigan. It has an abundance of natural resources and beauty--in my opinion, it's something of a natural national treasure. But as much as I hate to say it, I think true recovery will take decades.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:18 PM
 
5,231 posts, read 9,589,905 times
Reputation: 2346
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M_Indie_08 View Post
Sounds like Western NY as well

The city I grew up in is a shell of its former self..... Rochester NY
The glory days there were up until the early 1980's
It is truly sad to drive through most of that city now

Unfortunately, the backward thinking of many of the residents there will not allow the city and area to start to recover

I think that the best thing that could happen to western NY would be for it to become its own state.... get away from NYC...... Upstate (western) and Downstate have absolutely NOTHING in common
I agree with your description of Rochester. It's my home town, too. I was fortunate enough to spend my childhood in the city in the late 50s/early 60s. It was such a thriving, proud, beautiful city back then. I was back there several years ago for my grandmother's funeral and could not believe what happened to the city. Seeing Sibley's sitting so quietly and desolately at Main & Clinton, no longer a department store, and the empty downtown streets and sidewalks that crawled with people in my childhood broke my heart. The old neighborhood church that once anchored the 19th Ward, where my grandmother's funeral was held, had gang graffiti sprayed on the beautiful old bricks. Made me both sad and angry. Theplant my grandmother worked in is now a deserted shell of brick and steel. My old n'hood on the east side was still relatively nice, but my school was shut down. For me, it'll never be the same. Hope the city rebounds, what's left of it. The suburbs are still nice, but hey, they're just suburbs.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:42 PM
 
31,920 posts, read 37,911,515 times
Reputation: 6431
It sounds like suburbanization is a key aspect moreso than that they are obsolete. It is tough for city center or complete state to be out of date or useless. Interestingly, Rochester actually added people within city limits a year after the 2010 census. So, who knows what will happen. A lot of this is cyclical.

When I think of obsolete towns, I think of many towns in the Great Plains region or virtual ghost towns.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Western North Carolina
3,294 posts, read 4,378,755 times
Reputation: 4738
[quote=ckhthankgod;24959458]A lot of this is cyclical.

QUOTE]

I'm not so sure.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:40 AM
 
31,920 posts, read 37,911,515 times
Reputation: 6431
[quote=montanamom;24978946]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
A lot of this is cyclical.

QUOTE]

I'm not so sure.
Perhaps for smaller towns, but many cities are starting to revitalize.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Michigan
3,301 posts, read 2,846,861 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I dont think its an exageration. Major employers have not hired in years, decades at places like GM. As a consequence most people under 50 have really lousy jobs, or no job at all. Only the truely gifted, ambitious or connected people have made a decent life here. If your a "regular Joe" you are up the creek here without the preverbial paddle. I know so many people who are unemployed, it is ridiculous. The debaucle of 2008-2009 cost our state dearly, and many people lost their jobs, making a bad situation a catastraphy. Even though the news says its getting better here you would never know it. Even if the numbers are a bit better, in 6 months it will fall back as it always does. There are no real recoveries here. Those who find jobs accept very low wages and part time. Many cannot find work at all. If your work record is less than perfect you could be unemployed for years, or soon asking the question "would you like fries with that sir?" A drive through many towns in our state will reveal how bad it is. Storefronts shut up, many many homes with tall grass and yellow papers on the door. For sale signs everywhere. The problems or our cities are legendary, Detroit and Flint were both #1 and #2 respectively for most violent cities in the nation. Detroit is hopeless, even an economic recovery would not fix that town. It is ruined both socially and physically. Our states population is getting older on average, as many of our young people move away to escape the consequences of staying here. I dont blame them, a life of living hand to mouth does not sound that appealing at 21 does it. There are websites out there for Michigan ex-pats now living in other states, how many states have that? Not many Im sure. Michigan is a state rich in natural resources, and natrual beauty, it should not be like this. Michigans situation should stand as a warning to the rest of the nation to never allow you economy to be so dependent upon one industry. We are like a ship broken on the rocks, we warn others to steer clear of this path. Economic diversification is essential to economic stablilty. Michigans fate is proof of that.
There's a few things missing here.

1. GM as well as the other auto companies have been hiring.

2. You actually need qualifications now to be hired for these jobs.

3. Those who aren't hired don't have the college education now required for these manufacturing jobs.

Have you seen a car lately? Half of it is a computer. Half of the auto plants are filled with robots. In a way, the city isn't obsolete, but the type of uneducated low skill workers that fills the city don't meet the qualifications in order to work these jobs that have increasingly more advanced technology involved. GM has 500 some job openings with a good bunch in Michigan, but they aren't low skill or low education.

I'm not dismissing what you're saying isn't true, but it's only half the story. Detroit, and in many ways, the whole state of Michigan is transitioning into a technology based state rather than a manual labor state. Admittedly, some of this is a byproduct of outsourcing and corporations are going to do what they can to save money and bypass the unions but I'm not really going to defend them for that. And I don't want to sound like I'm saying workers are obsolete; people can always go to college and get the education they need, but I disagree with the assertion that Detroit is obsolete.
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