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A metro area should be considered the city, especially if the city is not a part of its county and the metro area is clearly densely packed the whole way through with secondary downtowns and continuous neighborhoods...otherwise, statistics wind up skewed and a tiny land area becomes what a city is judged by and people pretend to black out the rest of the city outside of the tiny city limits like it doesn't exist. It's like calling Shaquille O' Neal tiny by drawing boundaries near the middle of his body and pretending the rest of his upper body doesn't exist. As long as structures are continuously and densely packed, I don't care how big the area is, that is one big and continuous city, regardless of them providing these boundaries pretending you are in a different city. A city is really a big city made up of smaller cities in reality. A damn sign is all that keeps one from calling this the same city. Metro areas are dense and packed with continuous apartment buildings and houses and often secondary downtowns. They are in every way the continued city outside of downtown and midtown...there's not a big countryside in between the city and its suburbs, so why not consider them the same. If they're attached together, they are the same thing. If Beachwood can be considered Cleveland, for example, then Clayton can be considered St. Louis. Besides, most people say they are from a city if they are from the metro area anyways. Where do you think all of those people go to work in the morning..I'll give you a hint...it's not the suburbs. Cities are grossly misrepresented when they are only defined by their city limits..it gives the thinker the impression that there is nothing else outside the city limits and the city is all there is to the city. Big misconception...there is more to a city than just the city itself. There is the city's suburbs, complimentary downtowns, tourist attractions outside of it like amusement parks, etc....a city believe it or not is defined by itself and its immediately surrounding areas. A human is defined by more than just their body for example...they are defined by the things happening around them as well. Cities are the same way. Metro areas would not be necessary if this were not the case. They are used to account for some cities being slightly less dense than others and representing their whole population sprawl.
^^(I'm going to have to begin highlighting key points so that you can get it easier.)
You just don't get it. People live in suburbs because they don't want to live in the actual city. That's the whole point of a suburb. Clayton would not be what it is if it was still considered St. Louis. It may be adjacent to St. Louis but it is its own entity. You should be thankful Clayton and other suburbs are not considered to be St. Louis proper. If they were, the entire metro area would be crime-ridden and half the buildings would be abandoned/burnt out.
Detroit has some of the most affluent suburban communities in the nation. Wanna know why? They're not Detroit.
^^(I'm going to start highlighting key points so that you can get it.)
You just don't get it. People live in suburbs because they don't want to live in the actual city. That's the whole point of a suburb. Clayton would not be what it is if it was still considered St. Louis. It may be adjacent to St. Louis but it is its own entity. You should be thankful Clayton and other suburbs are not considered to be St. Louis proper. If they were, the entire metro area would be crime-ridden and half the buildings would be abandoned/burnt out.
See, once again you fail to restrain yourself. You just can't resist the urge to be the great ***hole you are and go and put down a city you aren't qualified to judge. You think that's all St. Louis is..crime-ridden and full of abandoned buildings. You need to wake the **** up and look around the city and go on a stereotype diet. The city is COMING BACK. Did you ever bother to look at all the lofts that are being built here or notice the abandoned buildings being converted to lofts? You dismiss all the plans for the new skyscrapers downtown. And it is only crime-ridden in the ghetto areas, which are in the northern parts of the city. You don't know crap about St. Louis. period. You're just out to insult the city. Clayton is a St. Louis suburb. And it is part of the metro area. And the metro area as a whole is pretty damn good and big. St. Louis with its whole metro area makes Indy look boring, tiny, and especially little Fort Wayne. So before you put down a city, make sure you can put down its metro area too. You should be grateful you said that over the internet and not to me in person. Clayton and St. Louis together are a single entity. Clayton is only 16,000 people and draws people from all over the St. Louis metro area, including the city. Why are you so against metro areas? You know what...you go on saying they don't count....you're the only person that I know who thinks that. Cities are defined by their metro areas in addition to those of the city limits. Besides, the majority of families prefer suburbs over the city. I would rather live in St. Louis anyday over pathetic little Fort Wayne, Indiana. You are the only one on earth who doesn't believe metros count...so I'm done arguing with you over it because you're too arrogant to accept anything, even Indy being conservative. **** you.
See, once again you fail to restrain yourself. You just can't resist the urge to be the great ***hole you are and go and put down a city you aren't qualified to judge. You think that's all St. Louis is..crime-ridden and full of abandoned buildings.
No, there may be some stray bullets in the mix.
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You need to wake the **** up and look around the city and go on a stereotype diet.
Coming from the man who says "I only pass through cities like Indianapolis and Columbus to get to better, more significant cities"
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The city is COMING BACK. Did you ever bother to look at all the lofts that are being built here or notice the abandoned buildings being converted to lofts? You dismiss all the plans for the new skyscrapers downtown.
I'm sorry, but there isn't ANYTHING that would remotely suggest that St. Louis is "back", not yet anyway. Indianapolis, Chicago, and Kansas City? Those cities are "back". And your comment about the lofts? All I can say is BIG WHOOP. Any city of any size is throwing up lofts. And as far as the skyscrapers are concerned you and I both know many of those skyscraper proposals won't materialize.
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And it is only crime-ridden in the ghetto areas, which are in the northern parts of the city.
So you're saying that only the southern half of the city is "coming back", right?
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You don't know crap about St. Louis. period.
And you don't know anything about Indy or Ft. Wayne either, and I've already proved this by way of your consistency of making invalid claims.
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You're just out to insult the city.
You and your city are not that important for me to want to devote all my time and attention to. Some of us have lives.
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Clayton is a St. Louis suburb. And it is part of the metro area. And the metro area as a whole is pretty damn good and big.
I don't disagree.
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St. Louis with its whole metro area makes Indy look boring, tiny, and especially little Fort Wayne.
Right. That's why Indianapolis is the fastest growing large metro in the Midwest while St. Louis continues to stagnate. It also has a much better reputation than crime-ridden St. Louis.
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So before you put down a city, make sure you can put down its metro area too. You should be grateful you said that over the internet and not to me in person.
Lol. Are you threatening me just because I don't like St. Louis? You have some serious issus. Like I'm supposed to be scared of a fellow city geek...LOL.
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Clayton and St. Louis together are a single entity. Clayton is only 16,000 people and draws people from all over the St. Louis metro area, including the city.
I don't disagree. Collectively speaking Clayton and St. Louis are considered the same.
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Why are you so against metro areas? You know what...you go on saying they don't count....you're the only person that I know who thinks that.
I'm not against metro areas. What are you talking about? I never said they don't count. They shouldn't be the only thing that counts though.
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Cities are defined by their metro areas in addition to those of the city limits. Besides, the majority of families prefer suburbs over the city.
Again, my point is that there is no specific black and white true definition of a city, and particularly not the metro area by itself--and you still don't get this.
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I would rather live in St. Louis anyday over pathetic little Fort Wayne, Indiana.
There you go again, with your pathetic attacks. It's not even funny anymore. Now it's just sad.
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You are the only one on earth who doesn't believe metros count...so I'm done arguing with you over it because you're too arrogant to accept anything, even Indy being conservative. **** you.
Yes, you definitely have anger issues in addition to your lack of comprehension issues. I seem to recall a private message sent by you that was very explicit in nature and similar to this post, and it only reflects your attitude: hostile and stubborn.
I'll tell you what, dude: when you're ready to grow up, then you can talk to me man to man. Until then, do us all a favor and don't say anything at all.
Besides, with Miami being first, Houston is the second densest city in the Sunbelt/South. You want to talk sprawl, talk Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, Austin, and San Antonio. Houston is largely centralized and concentrated with their not being much to the city outside of its core.
New Orleans hardly sprawls at all. It is basically N.O., Metairie, Kenner, some towns on the West Bank and about three towns on the North Shore. For a city its size, it is the least sprawling of any place I have seen. Metairie has a density greater than the core of alot of sunbelt cities (abt. 6000/mile.)
New Orleans hardly sprawls at all. It is basically N.O., Metairie, Kenner, some towns on the West Bank and about three towns on the North Shore. For a city its size, it is the least sprawling of any place I have seen. Metairie has a density greater than the core of alot of sunbelt cities (abt. 6000/mile.)
I agree. New Orleans is one of the most dense cities in the country due to its age and constrictions by geography (water).
Here in Atlanta on the other hand... The city itself is nice and the setting is beautiful, but the suburbs go on and on and on and on. The sprawl here in the Atlanta area is deceptive because a lot of it is hidden by trees and forest. There is absolutlely no sense of place in the burbs with people living in generic subdivisions, shopping at generic strip malls, and working in generic office parks. As gas prices and traffic increase, hopefully common sense will as well.
I don't see where the argument is here. How could any other cities possibly be sprawled more than Jacksonville, FL and Oklahoma City? (Comparing size to its population of course)
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sprawling.. lol! I think of spread out when I hear that, but it seems weired to me that no one would mention Jacksonville FL if that were the case? Since 1968, Jacksonville has been the largest city in land area in the contiguous United States. That's what I think of when I think of "sprawling". Jacksonville, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't see where the argument is here. How could any other cities possibly be sprawled more than Jacksonville, FL and Oklahoma City? (Comparing size to its population of course)
Anchorage has them both beat quite handily.
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Originally Posted by PitBullMommie1206
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sprawling.. lol! I think of spread out when I hear that, but it seems weired to me that no one would mention Jacksonville FL if that were the case? Since 1968, Jacksonville has been the largest city in land area in the contiguous United States. That's what I think of when I think of "sprawling". Jacksonville, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jacksonville had already been mentioned twice, including in the post right above yours...
Who would like to see Colts and ajf131 in a boxing ring??
When discussing sprawl, you have to include the metro area. That is what constitutes sprawl. Sprawl is not about land area alone, it is about land area vs density of people.
And more specifically it's about urbanized land.
People move out of a central city to escape density, get better schools, get better or cheaper housing, have less crime, etc. That's what creates sprawl.
Who would like to see Colts and ajf131 in a boxing ring??
When discussing sprawl, you have to include the metro area. That is what constitutes sprawl. Sprawl is not about land area alone, it is about land area vs density of people.
And more specifically it's about urbanized land.
People move out of a central city to escape density, get better schools, get better or cheaper housing, have less crime, etc. That's what creates sprawl.
What if the city boundaries simply follow the sprawl, such as has happened in the case of Phoenix? Every time a development crops up outside the city boundaries, the city simply annexes it.
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The city itself is nice and the setting is beautiful, but the suburbs go on and on and on and on. The sprawl here in the Atlanta area is deceptive because a lot of it is hidden by trees and forest. There is absolutlely no sense of place in the burbs with people living in generic subdivisions, shopping at generic strip malls, and working in generic office parks. As gas prices and traffic increase, hopefully common sense will as well.
