Moving from New Zealand to US

[hopingtocomehome]

Originally Posted by Objective Observer

Today I received a message from another CITY-DATA user who sent their message to my City-Data mail box. Obviously this person did not want to expose themselves to the public forum, but non-the-less I will paste it here for for all to see.
I have little doubt that "IK7200" just happens to be a New Zealander.

I got that message too. Gee whillikers, the lazy w*nker, you'd think he could at least send us something personal and not just cut and paste the abuse...I am offended at being treated like a Number!

[Gurlintheband]

Wow, hi, I'm from Christchurch, New Zealand, and this was all a bit horrible.
(Especially the spelling from the other New Zealander. I can't even comprehend that).
First off, I'm so sorry to all Americans that were treated badly in our country. I'll be the first to say that we are- not all of us- a racist country. Most of the time this is directed at Asians or countries that don't play rugby, I'm disgusted to note. But, I digress, there are many New Zealanders- younger ones- that are a lot more culturally aware, and that realize that Americans are different to America as a whole. Obviously some of you have had bad experiences in NZ, which I find odd- though I am not doubting- because a lot of us do idolize American pop culture. We do have much stronger ties with Britain, though, and always will have that connection with them that we don't have with America. We are a small, but Prideful country, and it's not always a great combo- as seen by the responses you got privately messaged- because even though you had a valid point, it was a very aggressive post that even got me feeling defensive, and would have sent some others over the edge- as seen.
As for Australia, I think that that feud has been exaggerated overseas. Families are split between these countries often, and although there is a certain competitiveness between out two countries, there really isn't a long harboring horrible resentment. Maybe some feel that way, but there is always going to be exceptions- and not just in NZ.
Sorry again on behalf of my country

[malagagirl]

I have lived in the USA all my life, but I have lived in MANY different regions of America: Arizona, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Idaho. So I feel very equipped to say from direct personal experience - there are some parts of American culture that will be the same no matter where you go and some distinct regional differences. It's a big country with so much diversity from small backwater towns to major metropolitain areas...what's right for YOU is going to depend on a lot of different factors.

I would say also that if you are coming to the states for job opportunities, do everything within your power to get some solid leads BEFORE making plans to move. We are having our own economic melt down and there are MANY MANY highly talented, well educated people who are under employed or unemployed who are really struggling. There have been massive home losses not just among people who were irresponsible, but also among honest people with integrity who always paid their bills but who lost jobs and could not replace their income. So do your research. Obviously some industries are going to have better opportunities than others. Just recognize that job markets are tricky things. Having other people say "oh there's lots of jobs in XYZ field" is a very different thing from having leads on a real hire.

All that being said - IF you could find a job in the region, Boise IDaho is a fabulous place for quality of life - clean, safe, very reasonable housing costs, nice mix of small city resources with outdoor adventure type stuff near by. Wenatchee, WA is absolutely drop dead beautiful (Cascade mountains in your back yard, Columbia River in your front yard and about 300 days a year of sunshine) but jobs are tight and housing far more costly. Sequim, WA is lovely as is Astoria, in completely different ways. I really do love the Pacific Northwest.

However, if desert landscape / climate appeals to you at all, Arizona has some delicious spots. I know very little of the eastern seaboard. But here in another thing to consider - if you do move to this country that does not commit you for ever and ever to whatever spot you may initially land. I say use your brain and do some homework, but then take a leap of faith and just go for it. If the first spot is not a right match for you there 's always the possibility of shifting over a to another region. Overall I think you will find most Americans a pretty welcoming bunch. Sure, we have our share of grumps and intolerance, but in the main I have found that people generally are very open to welcoming those from other countries. Actually, in many parts of the US residents are more likely to welcome you from another part of the world than if you were moving to their state from California. There is quite a bit a bias in many regions with heavy prejudice against the perceived California invasion.

[mjk1978]

woah! It really is a shame that some people (referring to the unfortunate private messages received by Objective Observer and hopingtocomehome) have to vent like this. It's very uncalled for and only lends to fuel the continued view that kiwis are anti-american.

We aren't like that. Yes, as with all counties, we have our radicals that seem to voice an opinion not shared by all. Some of my closest friends and former business partners are american and I only have the upmost respect for them.

I hope your view of NZ isn't tarnished by the actions of a few narrowed minded people.

[tuberose]

Originally Posted by mjk1978

woah! It really is a shame that some people (referring to the unfortunate private messages received by Objective Observer and hopingtocomehome) have to vent like this. It's very uncalled for and only lends to fuel the continued view that kiwis are anti-american.

We aren't like that. Yes, as with all counties, we have our radicals that seem to voice an opinion not shared by all. Some of my closest friends and former business partners are american and I only have the upmost respect for them.

I hope your view of NZ isn't tarnished by the actions of a few narrowed minded people.

Likewise.
I have visited the US many times ....love the country and would be very open to living there.

Just wish to add .... I doubt *that* post was written by a NZ'er with it's references to 'pickup' trucks and 'trash compactors'. We don't use those terms.

[tuberose]

Originally Posted by Gurlintheband

As for Australia, I think that that feud has been exaggerated overseas. Families are split between these countries often, and although there is a certain competitiveness between out two countries, there really isn't a long harboring horrible resentment.

I agree re exaggeration.
The 'feud' is just playful bantering and is not an issue

[AnnieA]

I found this thread hugely interesting because of the people who couldn't believe that anyone would not want to live in NZ and though I haven't lived in NZ, I know people who have immigrated there. It is not a complete paradise. Living expenses are very high. Racism toward the Moari (?) population was obvious. NZ want the tourist dollars but denigrate and resent the Americans behind their backs. the level of comfort in housing was not on a par with the US. A couple who immigrated want to come back to US now.

It certainly is a beautiful country physically.

[hopingtocomehome]

Originally Posted by tuberose

Just wish to add .... I doubt *that* post was written by a NZ'er with it's references to 'pickup' trucks and 'trash compactors'. We don't use those terms.

Good point. I assumed that because of the nasty backlash people tend to get when they criticise New Zealand, that it must have been a Kiwi. Doesn't sound like the sort of person who'd translate a stream of abuse into Yankese "for" us, as a courtesy. Maybe it was an American who fled America and is happy in NZ, feeling compelled to defend its honour. Or an American with a stake in ensuring that NZ continues to be a marketable destination. Then again, maybe it's just some psycho who doesn't like well-phrased arguments.

I work with UK English much of the time, and as a result sometimes forget to use American spellings, myself.

[Shaniel Iraia]

That is insane! I am New Zealand Maori and at 21 years of age I find this disgusting to read. Not all of us are like that and for you to make a decision based on what small number of people you came across during your stay in New Zealand is shocking to say the least. Please remember that you will come across many small minded people in this country (as you would in any country), but that is no excuse. Many of us are quite content with the "simple life" & love being in such a small country, apologies if some people were too straight forward for you and your colleagues, but I think when you speak of New Zealand people in general, like that, you cannot do so without condemning the innocent hospitable & fun loving husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, grandparents & children alike. You cannot base your bad experiences in life upon the mere words of fools! Please, kindly take caution when you next decide to speak such outlandish thoughts.

Kind Regards.

Originally Posted by Objective Observer

This is a very interesting thread.

"Moving from New Zealand to U.S."

Here we have an apparent New Zealander "Kiwi1" who says;



After some exchange of dialogue about this, a member by the handle of "M TYPE X" asks a very interesting and significant question;



Now, before I go any further, let me give you a little background about myself.
I am a born U.S. American who has lived and worked in many different nations over the past few decades. My definition of "lived and worked in many different nations" is that I resided in a particular country for no less than 2 years.

One of those places just happens to be NEW ZEALAND, where I lived and worked for 4 years.

Kiwi1's response to M TYPE X was thus



Actually Kiwi1, you would be WRONG!

New Zealand is EXTREMELY Anti-American.
More so than any other place I've ever lived over the past 40 years.

Whenever I've brought this subject up, I've heard many Americans tell me

"Well, we visited New Zealand and we never experienced any Anti-Americanism. In fact we found most Kiwis to be very friendly and nice" etc etc

Most American Tourist's who visit NZ rarely see this very ugly side of New Zealand. Tourist's usually stay within the tourist circuit where visitors from overseas are usually and logically afforded a certain level and degree of kindness and hospitality, though that particular level of kindness is not an accurate representation or reflection of the sentiment felt by the majority of the host nation i.e. New Zealand.

You can't make a very good living in tourism if you treat your American cliental with Anti-American sentiment and comment.

Though for those who have actually spent a significant amount of time living, working, or studying in New Zealand, the other and more accurate face of New Zealand soon begins to emerge.

Now I am usually apolitical, holding to the truism that religion and politics are issues never to be discussed in public.
Yet despite this, there was not a single day, a single day where I didn't hear, see, or personally face some form of Anti-Americanism while in NZ.

Not a single day.

Some examples that come to mind.
When I was living in Dunedin I went to a local Honda Motorcycle dealership to order a particular accessory for my motorcycle.
The dealer hearing my accent asked me if I was from the States. When I confirmed the case, he attempted to convince me that I should purchase a different and more expensive accessory. When I told him I wasn't interested and I thought the price was too high for me, he said to me something along the lines of;

"What? All you F@*king Yanks that come over to NZ have tons of money. . . you come over here and buy up our land and muck the whole place up for the lot of us. . . "

It seems I wasn't the only American who faced such sentiments.
While living in the Lower Hutt I met an American Photo Journalist who worked for a local Newspaper. He was married to a Kiwi and had lived in NZ for the past 20 years. When I asked him if HE had ever been the target of any Anti-American sentiment he said that he has been called a "Yank" in a derogatory fashion on an almost daily basis ever since he arrived to NZ over 2 decades earlier and that he had simply learned to put up with it, and that New Zealander's were by default inherently Anti-American.

Over the 4 years that I lived and worked in NZ I met many other Americans who shared with me similar stories, and an obvious pattern would always come to light:

Kiwis are Anti-American.

It's not just our politics that they don't like, or the actions of a particular U.S. Administration.
it's EVERYTHING, and Kiwi's don't simply protest or complain about their feelings to whatever unfortunate American happens to be within earshot, they take it out on Americans as if a single American is the representative of the entire U.S. Social and Political spectrum.
Kiwi's will go out of their way to find something to bash America and American's about.

Now before I start listing you some references found in the media concerning the inherent Kiwi trait towards Anti-Americanism, let me first respond to Kiwi1's comment when she says "New Zealand is no more 'anti-american' than any other western nation"

I spent some significant time in the Middle East. . . . Lebanon to be more exact, and though Lebanon is not a "Western Nation" I'm going to use this example because during my time in Lebanon I heard a good share of Anti-American sentiment, yet not once. . . not ONCE did a Lebanese ever target me personally with an Anti-American sentiment or say anything derogatory towards me simply because I was an American.

In fact I remember a time in 1998 when a couple of friends and I took a weekend car trip in southern Lebanon and somehow ended up in the town of Nabatiye.

For those who don't know the significance of Nabatiye, it's a very pro-Hizbullah town where many Hizbullah members happen to live.
We didn't intend to go there, trust me, but apparently a missed turn took us to a place where I would have thought American's wouldn't be very welcome.

We ended up having lunch there speaking to a few bona fide members and supporters of Hizbullah.

Here I am, a blue eyed Caucasian American from the west coast having lunch with HIZBULLAH, and not once did they say anything derogatory, insulting or threatening to me because I was an American.

NOT ONCE.

You better believe that they didn't hide their feelings to me about the American Government and go into detail about what they felt were atrocities committed by various American Administrations over the years, but they never treated my companions or I in any fashion that made us feel as if they were taking it out on us personally because we were Americans.

We were shown a level of decency and respect that many Americans are not afforded in New Zealand, and that's pretty sad taking into account that we were shown such decency and respect from members of a group that the U.S. Government recognizes as one of the most dangerous Terrorist Groups in the Middle East.

You see, these Lebanese were able to make the distinction between the common American people and the American Government as being two completely separate entities.

I remember one of the Hizbullah members even saying "We don't hate the American People, most of the American people don't even know the truth of what's happening in Lebanon and why we have such hateful feelings towards their Government"

If there is any place on the planet where I would have thought I'd be getting some flak for simply being an American, it would have been at that time and that place in Lebanon, yet I didn't get any flak.

Nor have I ever received flak for being an American in Syria, Bahrain, Island of Cyprus, Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, France, Germany, England, Canada, Fiji Islands, Argentina, or even Australia.

Yet in New Zealand, I've witnessed more anti-Americanism then in any of these other places combined.

I find it rather curious, because despite the fact that Kiwi's are constantly harping about what's wrong with America and Americans, they can't seem to disassociate themselves from their addiction for everything American.

Kiwi's are always listening to American Music and Idolizing American bands, yet they hate us.

Kiwi's are stuffing their mouths with Burger King, McDonald, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Pizza Hutt, yet they hate us.

Kiwi's wear American style clothing and copy many American type traits, yet they complain about everything American.

They spend millions of their dollars each year watching American cinema, which they absolutely love, yet the minute they exit the theatre they start to criticize everything that is American.

If New Zealanders are so Anti American, which they are, they should stop being hypocrites and they should stop eating American Food, listening to American Music, Wearing American Styles, Watching American movies, or like in the case of Kiwi1. . . . wanting to come to America in order to make more money.

The fact is that New Zealand is facing a "Brain Drain".
Kiwi's are leaving NZ in droves looking for better opportunities overseas, and many of them can only dream of wanting to go to the States where the Paychecks are better, taxes are lower, people are more positive, and there is a better overall opportunity to make something of oneself.

So how do we explain this chronic Anti-Americanism then?

Is it because Kiwi's are by nature negative and pessimistic, and can never find any sort of serenity unless they have something to complain about?

Is it because deep down inside they are really jealous of America and Americans?

I'll let you come to your own conclusions.

New Zealand and New Zealanders hold extremely anti-American sentiments and have the tendency to openly express those sentiments to the average American more often than not, and they do so in such a way that in the majority of the cases it is seen as a personal attack towards the American who they are expressing their anti-American views to.

I have asked many New Zealanders over the years who have lived and worked in the United States if THEY had ever experienced any sort of rudeness or hatred or Anti-New Zealand-ism from any Americans, and the answer has always been the same.

"No, Never".

So why does the average American have to endure any kind of Rudeness or Hatred from Kiwi's when living and working in NZ?

If you don't like American Foreign policy, then fine.
If you don't like the American Government, then fine.

While I was in NZ I had the chance of meeting many Americans who lived and worked in NZ, and whenever we've discussed the Kiwi knack for directing their Anti American views to whomever might have the misfortune of being an American in the wrong place at the wrong time, we've always seemed to reach the same consensus . . . Just stop taking it out on us.

When a member of Hizbullah, who straps on a suicide bomb vest and hopes to blow himself up, is able to make a differentiation between the American people and the American government, yet the average Kiwi is incapable of making that same differentiation, it just makes you kind of wonder which of the two has the more accurate perception of the world around them.

That's kind of scary, isn't it?

Here are some of the links I earlier promised. I'll post many more at a later time.

[URL="http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0620/p07s01-woap.html"]Kiwis have turned sour on Americans | csmonitor.com[/URL]

Note: The above article sites that NZ is an "Ally" of the U.S.
This is an inaccurate assessment. NZ is not considered an "Ally" by the U.S. rather it is considered a "Friend".

Cover Story: Upping the anti by Joanne Black | New Zealand Listener ([URL="http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/203/features/6019/upping_the_anti.html"]New Zealand Listener – Political, Cultural and Literary life of New Zealand The Listener[/URL] - broken link)

Note: Both of the above links supplied were written by Kiwi's and there is some obvious bias towards NZ in the articles. The articles also minimize the extent, frequency and severity of the Anti-American sentiment which Americans have faced in New Zealand.

[URL="http://www.stuff.co.nz/4395820a1861.html"]Advance to Australia on a one-way fare - Opinion: views on the news on Stuff.co.nz[/URL]

The above link is to an article relating to Australia and NZ, but it can be applied towards America and NZ as well. It gives a good indication of the Kiwi mindset.

Happy Reading