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If you do not get rotavirus you do not die from it. Preventing the disease prevents deaths.
Your original statement was that there is no evidence the vaccine has prevented a single death. You are wrong.
Most people who live in the US and who have access to clean water and a sanitary sewer will not die from rotavirus. Only 7% of childhood diarrhea cases are form rotavirus in the US. The death rate was already extremely low in the US when the vaccine was introduced, 20-60 deaths per year. Parents can be taught to recognize the signs of dehydration and can be taught how to manage it. They can also be taught the signs of when to get to the hospital if they cannot manage it at home and get an IV. Kids who are not breastfed are more at risk as are kids in group daycare. The risk is absolutely not the same for all. For my kids the vaccine would have been riskier then the illness. One of my kids did get the vaccine and she was the kid who had a pretty bad diarrhea illness at about a year of age. Was it rotavirus? Who knows. We managed it at home. It was not a big deal.
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From the link you gave 90% of the vaccinated persons exposed to pertussis did not get infected. If they are not infected they cannot spread the disease. Herd immunity exists whether you want to believe in it or not.
"Our results are unambiguous: a model with no vaccine effect on transmission cannot reproduce the observed epidemiological patterns after vaccination (Fig. 1B). In particular, the model predicts a decline in young-infant cases if—and only if—aP [acellular pertussis vaccine] blocks transmission."
I don’t think you read all of the links. There can’t be herd immunity with the pertussis vaccine. For one, people can be asymptomatic carriers and two, the vaccine wears off and is not long lasting. There are tons of people who have no immunity to it. More without then with and by a lot.
Andy Wakefield would have made more if he had kept his original job as a scientists. I don’t think he’s as full of **** as he’s been made out to be either. Del Bigtree’s movie wasn’t a blockbuster, it was a documentary. So what? He’s trying to tell the other side since the mainstream media can’t (their sponsors would not allow it) and won’t. Naturopaths have a different view of health which is based upon the belief that the body as the ability to heal itself under the right conditions. What they could make by reccomending food, herbs and supplements is a drop in the bucket compared the money that the pharamacuetical companies and the mainstream health organizations, including doctors are raking in.
That’s BS that the risk is always higher with the illness then the vaccine. Not true for every illness and definitely not true for every person.
Wakefield is a greedy quack. People have died because of his fraudulent "study". The movie? Where did donations go?
Food, herbs, and supplements will not prevent measles.
You’re comparing the entire supplement industry to one small component of the entire pharmaceutical industry. One would not take every supplement in order to prevent complications from measles, or complications from flu, but rather a few. It’s not an accurate comparison.
No one has ever said that food, herbs and supplements will prevent measles (or flu, or other illnesses), they will however help in preventing complications.
Some people understand that we were born with immune systems and some people prefer to support their immune systems so that they can fight illness if sick, rather then injections their bodies full of viruses, bacteria, heavy metals, calf serum, formaldehyde, human, animal and insect DNA, msg, squalene.
Not all vaccines carry the same risk. Not all illness comes with the same risk. Some people will get vaccines without any obvious issues and others will be injured. When there is risk, there must always be choice.
Most people who live in the US and who have access to clean water and a sanitary sewer will not die from rotavirus. Only 7% of childhood diarrhea cases are form rotavirus in the US. The death rate was already extremely low in the US when the vaccine was introduced, 20-60 deaths per year. Parents can be taught to recognize the signs of dehydration and can be taught how to manage it. They can also be taught the signs of when to get to the hospital if they cannot manage it at home and get an IV. Kids who are not breastfed are more at risk as are kids in group daycare. The risk is absolutely not the same for all. For my kids the vaccine would have been riskier then the illness. One of my kids did get the vaccine and she was the kid who had a pretty bad diarrhea illness at about a year of age. Was it rotavirus? Who knows. We managed it at home. It was not a big deal.
I don’t think you read all of the links. There can’t be herd immunity with the pertussis vaccine. For one, people can be asymptomatic carriers and two, the vaccine wears off and is not long lasting. There are tons of people who have no immunity to it. More without then with and by a lot.
Again, you completely ignore how sick rotavirus makes children. For you, if an infection does not cause millions of deaths a vaccine is not needed. I hate to tell it to you, but not every mother is a supermom who can deal with a child producing rivers of vile smelling poop. Most would prefer that their children not get sick and do not see illness as just a way to demonstrate how good they are dealing with it. It is a big deal, and it gets bigger when multiple family members are sick at the same time, including perhaps the caregivers.
Yes, there is herd immunity with pertussis vaccine. Supporting evidence already provided. Not everyone who is vaccinated is an asymptomatic carrier. In the study you provided yourself, out of 46 vaccinated cases exposed to pertussis, 41 were not infected at all. They could not be carriers because they were not infected. Do you not understand that? Three out of the 46 were infected but had no symptoms. That is 6.5% Two were infected and symptomatic.
The pertussis attack rate is about 80% of those who are susceptible and exposed.
Vaccinated: about 10% get it.
Unvaccinated: about 80% get it.
Please supply a source for your opinion that "There are tons of people who have no immunity to it. More without then with and by a lot."
Note that Mississppi and W. Virginia, which do not allow non-medical school exemptions, have two of the four lowest pertussis incidences in the US. There were 4377 reported cases in 2017. The vaccine is doing something.
Again, you completely ignore how sick rotavirus makes children. For you, if an infection does not cause millions of deaths a vaccine is not needed. I hate to tell it to you, but not every mother is a supermom who can deal with a child producing rivers of vile smelling poop. Most would prefer that their children not get sick and do not see illness as just a way to demonstrate how good they are dealing with it. It is a big deal, and it gets bigger when multiple family members are sick at the same time, including perhaps the caregivers.
It’s diarrhea for goodness sake! Anyone with kids knows what it’s like dealing with a kid who has diarrhea. If it’s not rotavirus, they will have some other type. The vast majority of kids in the US who get a diarrhea illness, including rotavirus will be fine in a few days and never even need to go to the doctor, much less the hospital. It’s not fun but as long as the child can keep hydrated, they will be fine, even at home and if they can’t stay hydrated, they will end up with an IV at the hospital and 99.9% of the time, also be fine. And for God’s sake, I was not claiming to be supermom for being able to handle my kids diarhea episode just fine at home. The vast majority of parents can and do the same exact thing.
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Yes, there is herd immunity with pertussis vaccine. Supporting evidence already provided. Not everyone who is vaccinated is an asymptomatic carrier. In the study you provided yourself, out of 46 vaccinated cases exposed to pertussis, 41 were not infected at all. They could not be carriers because they were not infected. Do you not understand that? Three out of the 46 were infected but had no symptoms. That is 6.5% Two were infected and symptomatic.
The pertussis attack rate is about 80% of those who are susceptible and exposed.
Vaccinated: about 10% get it.
Unvaccinated: about 80% get it.
Please supply a source for your opinion that "There are tons of people who have no immunity to it. More without then with and by a lot."
Note that Mississppi and W. Virginia, which do not allow non-medical school exemptions, have two of the four lowest pertussis incidences in the US. There were 4377 reported cases in 2017. The vaccine is doing something.
The writing has been on the wall for quite a few years in regards to the failure of the pertussis vaccine to confer long term protection or herd immunity.
You’re comparing the entire supplement industry to one small component of the entire pharmaceutical industry. One would not take every supplement in order to prevent complications from measles, or complications from flu, but rather a few. It’s not an accurate comparison.
No one has ever said that food, herbs and supplements will prevent measles (or flu, or other illnesses), they will however help in preventing complications.
Some people understand that we were born with immune systems and some people prefer to support their immune systems so that they can fight illness if sick, rather then injections their bodies full of viruses, bacteria, heavy metals, calf serum, formaldehyde, human, animal and insect DNA, msg, squalene.
Not all vaccines carry the same risk. Not all illness comes with the same risk. Some people will get vaccines without any obvious issues and others will be injured. When there is risk, there must always be choice.
We were talking about whether there is money made from supplements, and there is.
Author Roald Dahl's daughter died from measles. I suspect her nutrition was probably excellent. Good nutrition is no guarantee that someone with a VPD will not have complications.
There is no way to "support" your immune system. That is an alt med myth.
The vaccine ingredient argument has been debunked.
The bacteria and viruses in vaccines are either dead or weakened. They are nothing like the full strength wild versions. That is why they do not make people sick the way the wild versions do.
Heavy metals? You mean aluminium, I presume? you get more from air, food, and water than all the vaccines you can ever give a child. There is no mercury in children's vaccines and hasn't been for years. You can get single dose flu vaccine without it, too.
Bovine calf serum is used as a growth medium. It is not actually in the finished vaccine.
The human body makes formaldehyde, and it is in common foods. The amount in a vaccine is overwhelmed by those other sources.
Human cell lines are used to grow viruses for some vaccines. The cells themselves (or insect or animal cells) and their DNA are not in the finished vaccine.
The human body makes glutamate, and the amount of MSG in a vaccine is again tiny. It is also used in a limited number of vaccines, not all of them.
The one vaccine with a squalene adjuvant, which is not dangerous, by the way, is a flu vaccine licensed only for use over age 65. You do not have to worry about squalene in any child's vaccine.
The problem is that all you see is the risk of the vaccine, which you exaggerate, and ignore the risk of the disease, which you trivialize, with tunnel vision focused on mortality. VPDs make people terribly sick, even when they do not kill, and they can cause lifelong disabilities in survivors. When your risk to benefit assessment is based on bad information you are not making an informed choice at all.
The number with adverse reactions to vaccines is tiny compared to the number injured by VPDs.
Terri, few of my life experiences which are "irrelevant" to some posters. Back when my older daughter (now 40) caught some kind of "stomach flu" (Rotorvirus ?) in school, she brought it home. Hubs was the worst. Grown man on the bathroom floor writhing in pain. My 9 month old daughter had it too but not as bad as her sister and Dad. Oh, that will never happen now with that Rotovirus, right? Pediatrician said to give her Pedialite which she vomited. Only time she didn't vomit was when I breastfed her. Doctor said NO NURSING. I ignored him and changed doctors. New doctor said if she is keeping the milk down, let her nurse. She did like a Newborn and was fine withing 24 hours. Hubs and older daughter were talking meds for days. My SIL's Mom said he had to be hospitalized at 10 months and put on a IV for that "Rotovirus or Norovirus". She never breastfed him. No Rotovirus vacines then, or Norovirus vaccine today. So what did they have? 5 and 40 year old without a Rotovirus vaccine?
My Grandson, who HAD his Rotovirus vax, caught that "stomach flu" when he was 2 right before his Newborn brother came home from the hospital. He gave it to everyone who came into contact with him, including his Mom. His Newborn brother was the only one who did not catch it. He was too young to be vaccinated for a Rotovirus. Why did he not catch it despite being so up close and personal with his Mom? She breastfed him.
Bottom line? Rotovirus vax is not going to protect against a Norovirus. Nature has a way of protecting Newborns by way of their Mothers and breastfeeding.
It’s diarrhea for goodness sake! Anyone with kids knows what it’s like dealing with a kid who has diarrhea. If it’s not rotavirus, they will have some other type. The vast majority of kids in the US who get a diarrhea illness, including rotavirus will be fine in a few days and never even need to go to the doctor, much less the hospital. It’s not fun but as long as the child can keep hydrated, they will be fine, even at home and if they can’t stay hydrated, they will end up with an IV at the hospital and 99.9% of the time, also be fine. And for God’s sake, I was not claiming to be supermom for being able to handle my kids diarhea episode just fine at home. The vast majority of parents can and do the same exact thing.
The writing has been on the wall for quite a few years in regards to the failure of the pertussis vaccine to confer long term protection or herd immunity.
With the vaccine most families will not have to "deal" with diarrhea due to rotavirus at all. Other causes obviously will not be prevented. Why would you expect them to be?
Please supply a source for your opinion that, "There are tons of people who have no immunity to it [pertussis]. More without then with and by a lot."
If the pertussis vaccine is worthless, why did 90% of the vaccinated children in the article you linked to not catch pertussis when exposed? If there is no herd immunity why did the incidence of pertussis in unvaccinated infants go down with use of the acellular version of the vaccine?
Herd immunity depends on a large portion of the population being immune. That means vaccinating children and adults keeping up with boosters.
"Herd immunity depends on a large portion of the population being immune. That means vaccinating children and adults keeping up with boosters.[/quote]"
You can end every possible Childhood Exemption but you will never eliminate NO from the latter group. This is what you cannot seem to understand with your (bully) Herd Immunity concept. Children are only 25% of the population today. We have a very low birthrate in 2019. Can you achieve your Herd Immunity from that percentage?
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