Forbes just named GR #1 place to invest in house (Grand Rapids: real estate, rental market)

[magellan]

Originally Posted by sammy87

Thats good to know. I really like MTN biking. Its probably my fav outdoor activity. Skiing is great, but in CO weekend traffic is a nightmare. I only get up maybe 5-8 times a yr. Issue with MTN biking is the foothill trails that are close are packed and biking in the high country is difficult. I shouldn't be complaining, CO is great. But I see us needing a bigger house soon and theres nothing to upgrade to. Even the $800k homes have tiny lots and packed together.

Not sure what property taxes in MI are though. Im roughly $5k for my home. PA in a good school district Id be close to $10k. If we did move, id probably find a lot and build my self though.

Thanks for the help.

Most of the townships around here are 27 - 30 mills, which you use to multiply times your assessed value (half your market value, approximately). So a $500,000 house would be close to $250,000 taxable value x .027 = $6750/year. That's in school districts like Forest Hills, Rockford, Lowell, Caledonia.

There are a couple of builders in that price range that really shouldn't be building in that price range but most of the rest are pretty good.

You should definitely check out fat biking then, if you make the move. You can use them on mountain biking trails in the summer and I know people who have ridden up to 50 miles along Lake Michigan right on the beach (below the high water mark on the Great Lakes is publicly owned). They have a lot of great trails up by Traverse City, including a huge new trail network by Bellaire called Glacial Hills.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+...UIDCgA&dpr=1.5

Let me know if you need any other help.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by magellan

No threadjack at all. But actually:

Property taxes are considerably higher on average in Southeast Michigan. You have to go to South Lyon and parts of Northville to come close to the low millage rates in much of West Michigan. We pay 27 mills and live in one of the best school districts in the State (Forest Hills). That's hard to find in SE Michigan.

8 facts about property assessments and tax rates in Michigan | MLive.com

The good school districts in the Detroit area require quite a bit more household income to afford than housing here. You can get into quite a few Grand Rapids area districts that rate very highly, for quite a bit less housing cost (ie for instance you can buy a new home in Byron Center School district for mid $200's.)

The number of trails and greenways in West and Southwest Michigan way outnumbers SE Michigan. SE Michigan is not even a close second. Plus, most of WM is just a few minutes from these recreational areas. I'm not even including the lakeshore and all of the dunes and state parks.

West Michigan Trails and Greenways Coalition > Trail Maps

Crime is mostly a perception issue. Hard to argue one way or the other. But Grand Rapids, the largest city in West Michigan, only had 6 murders last year, with a population of 200,000 people.

Recreation is more than just paved bike trails - it’s camping, it’s swimming on a beach on the lake, it's canoeing in a scenic river, it’s hiking in woods, it’s fishing, it’s disc golf

Below: list of large parks plus other notable parks within AN HOUR of downtown Detroit. We are not lacking for recreation. It may take longer to get to these places than in West Michigan if you live in certain parts of the metro area. Also, Lake Michigan is unmatched around here.


WAYNE COUNTY

Lower Huron Metropark – 1,258 acres - mature woodlands, grassy meadows and Huron River

Detroit River International Wildlife Refuge, Humbug Unit – 410 acres – last mile of natural shoreline of Detroit River, 2 short trails

Lake Erie Metropark – 1,607 acres - 3 miles of Lake Erie Shoreline

Oakwoods Metropark – 1,756 acres - scenic woods and picturesque Huron River

Willow Metropark – 1,531 acres - mature woodlands, Washago Pond and the Huron River

Maybury State Park – 944 acres – trails, horseback riding, working educational farm

Belle Isle State Park (city of Detroit) – 987 acres – largest urban island park in the U.S.

Palmer Park and Golf Course (city of Detroit) – 296 acres – woodlands, lawns, small lake, historic log cabin

River Rouge Park (city of Detroit) - 1,184 acres – Largest park in the city of Detroit, trails, forests

Eliza Howell Park (city of Detroit) – 250 acres – unarguably the saddest park in America

Elizabeth Park – 162 acres – Quarter-mile long Detroit River coastline, 1st county park in Michigan


Bridge at Elizabeth Park, Trenton, MI

Pointe Mouillee State Game Area – 4,040 acres – trails galore with open water all around you

Holiday Forestry & Wildlife Preserve – linear park, 550 acres along the valley of Tonquish Creek

Crosswinds Marsh – 1,050 acres of reclaimed wetlands near the Metro Airport

Notable Trails

Hines Drive/Parkway – 17.2 miles long spanning 6 cities. Along the parkway are over 20 different parks/playgrounds/ golf courses

Trail connecting Lower Huron, Willow, and Oakwoods Metropark – 15 miles long

Dequindre Cut – urban recreational path known for its artwork and graffiti– 1.2 miles + a 1 mile extension is almost complete

Detroit Riverwalk – 3.5 miles are complete, 5.5 miles are planned


OAKLAND COUNTY

Highland State Recreation Area – 5,900 acres of lakes, fishing, beach, miles of trails, kayak, campgrounds

Pontiac Lake State Recreation Area – 3,800 acres of rolling woodlands, beach, boating, picnic areas

Bald Mountain State Recreation Area – 4,637 acres spread over 2 nearby units. Some of the most rugged and steepest hills of Southeast Michigan

Ortonville State Recreation Area – 5,400 acres, wooded hills, lakes, trails, camping

Holly Recreation Area – 7,817 acres, rolling woodlands, open fields, 17 lakes, 30 miles of trails

Proud Lake State Recreation Area - 4,700 acres, 2 lakes, pine tree forests, 20 miles of trails

Seven Lakes State Park – 1,434 acres, 7 lakes, 7 miles of trails along the lakes and forest

Indian Springs Metropark – 2,215 acres – woodland hills, golf course, underwater aquatic center, 12 miles of trails, sledding hills

Kensington Metropark – 4,486 acres – wooded hills, 2 beaches, a golf course & nature center with exhibits & guided hikes

Highland Oaks County Park – 302 acres of rolling hills, wetlands, 2.5 miles trails, equestrian

Addison Oaks County Park – 1,174 acres - 174 campsites, 7.5 miles of trails, disc golf course, waterslide

Groveland Oaks County Park – 362 acres – beach, waterslide, camping, 18-hole mini-golf course

Orion Oaks County Park – 916 acres - lakes, fishing, 10 miles trails, dog park

Waterford Oaks County Park – 185 acres – waterpark, motocross, 3 miles of trails

Independence Oaks County Park – 1,276 acres - 12 miles of trails, Crooked Lake, swimming, boating

Lyon Oaks County Park – 1,041 acres – wetlands, dog park, 6 miles of trails, golf course

Rose Oaks County Park – 640 acres - wooded uplands, gently rolling open meadows, wetlands, small lakes, 4 miles of trails

Red Oaks County Park – 163 acres – dog park, golf course, nature center, waterpark

Wixom Habitat (city of Wixom) – 292 acre nature preserve , ½ mile walking path, interactive nature center

Bloomer Park (city of Rochester Hills) – 200 acres – sledding hills, hiking trails, fishing in Clinton River


Downhill Skiing

Mt Holly Ski and Snowboard Resort – 100 skiable acres

Alpine Valley Ski Area – largest ski area in southern Michigan; 25 runs

Pine Knob Ski Resort - 300 feet of vertical skiing on 17 runs

Notable Trails

Clinton River Trail – 16 miles through Sylvan Lake, Pontiac, Auburn Hills, Rochester Hills and Rochester

Paint Creek Trail – Michigan’s oldest rails-to-trail, 9 miles long; wildlife, historical sites, picnic tables and a lovely creek filled with jumping trout

Polly Ann Trail – 34 mile long connects Orion, Oxford, and Addison and goes into Lapeer County


MACOMB COUNTY

Lake St. Clair Metropark – 770 acres – trails, swimming beach, boardwark along Lake St. Clair

Wilcott Mills Metropark – 2,625 acres - historic grist mill, working farms, trails along Clinton River

Stoney Creek Metropak – 4,461 acres – swimming, boating, hiking

Wetzel State Recreation Area – 900 acres – undeveloped park, hiking, hunting, snowmobiling and cross-country skiing

River Bends Park & Hollands Ponds (Shelby Township) – 1038 total acres – 6 miles of the Clinton River, hiking trails, archery range, woods; wildlife preserve; contains portion of never completed CLINTON-KALAMAZOO CANAL

Clinton River Park System of City of Sterling Heights - 314 acres – trails, playgrounds, canoes/kayak, athletic fields along Clinton River


Notable Trails

Macomb Orchard Trail – 23.5 miles longs across northern portion of Macomb County

Metro Parkway Trail –11 miles long, definitely NOT a scenic route

Clinton River Park Trail – 4.5 miles along the Clinton River connects 3 scenic parks in Sterling Heights and Utica


ST. CLAIR COUNTY

Algonac State Park – 1,450 acres –2 campgrounds and ½ mile long St. Clair River frontage

Notable Trails
Bridge to Bay Trail - extends from village of Lake Port on Lake Huron south to Algonac on the St. Clair River – 37.5 miles long currently, 54 miles planned


LIVINGSTON COUNTY

Island Lake State Recreation Area – 4,000 acres – shooting range, canoeing, beaches, camping


Sand Dune at Island Lake State Recreation Area

Brighton Recreation Area – 4,947 acres – camping, lakes, 39 miles of trails for mountain biking, hiking, skiing and horse riding

Huron Meadows Metropark – 1,540 acres – oak-hickory forest, cross-country skiing, golf

Manly Bennett Park (Hamburg Township) – 384 acres – athletic fields & courts, hiking trails, fishing dock

Downhill Skiing
Mt. Brighton Ski Area - 26 trails spread over 130 acres of skiable terrain


WASHTENAW COUNTY

Pinckey State Recreation Area – 11,000 acres - Several fishing lakes, 25 miles of biking & hiking trails, 4 campgrounds, 2 beaches

Waterloo State Recreation Area – 20,000 acres – 4 campgrounds, 47 miles of hiking trails, a beach, boating, fishing

Chelsea State Game Area - 799 acres around Fourmile Lake. Shore fishing, waterfowl hunting, small-boat launch, several unpaved trails

Hudson Mills Metropark – 1,549 acres – Huron River rapids, canoe, fishing, golf, 7 miles of trails

Dexter-Huron Metropark – 122 acres – Huron River, fishing, canoeing, woodlands, ballfields

Independence Lake County Park – 360 acres – lake, prairie, waterslide, fishing trails

Rolling Hills County Park – 363 acres – woods, trails, disc golf, sledding, cross-country skiing, fishing

Park Lyndon (County Park) – 335 acres – lake, steep hills, woods, trails, wetlands

Nichols Arboretum (University of Michigan) – 123 acres – native and exotic trees and shrubs, scenic river, hilly topography, trails

Gallup Park (city of Ann Arbor) – 69 acres – 3 miles of trails, canoe/kayak the Huron River, scenic walkways that traverse small islands

Bird Hills Nature Area (city of Ann Arbor) - 161 acres - The city's largest park, hilly green space, unpaved woodland hiking trails.

Notable Trails

Border to Border Trail - This route is 20 miles long, 35 miles are planned, runs along the edge of the Huron River.

Waterloo-Pinckey Trail – 35 miles long connects the 2 state recreation areas; passes pine plantations, open meadows, marshes, kettle bogs, forests, and 14 lakes

Potawatomi Trail – 17 Mile loop is hilly and picturesque for hiking and mountain biking


MONROE COUNTY

Sterling State Park – 1,300 acres – over 1 mile of Lake Erie beach, boating, fishing, camping

Petersburg State Game Area – 484 acres – managed game area, native wet-sand prairie habitat. Open for walking, dog runs.


Notable Trails

Sterling-River Raisin Heritage Trail – 8 miles long; provides access to historic sites, additional local parks and detours to downtown Monroe


ESSEX COUNTY (ONTARIO, YES CANADA)

Ojibway Prairie Complex – 834 acres spread across 5 adjacent parks 10 minutes from downtown Windsor - Wetlands, forest, savanna and prairie, trails

Point Pelee National Park - 3,860 acres - marsh and woodland habitats, tapers to a sharp point as it extends into Lake Erie, swimming beach, spectacular waterviews, hiking, canoeing


Point Pelee National Park

Hillman Marsh Conservation Area – 850 acres – marshland habitat, 5 km of nature trails, beach along Lake Erie, canoeing

Wheatley Provincial Park – 596 acres - Carolinian forest, a number of creekside campsites, 2 km of sandy Lake Erie beaches, trails


Notable Trails

Riverfront Trail (City of Windsor) - 5.17 km long - Scenic views of the Detroit River extending from Ambassador Park to Centennial Park into Dieppe Gardens

Ganatchio Trail – 6.2 km long – located where the Detroit River meets Lake St. Clair

[magellan]

The latest home sales stats:

http://www.grar.com/wp-content/uploa...nuary-2016.pdf

Down to 2 months of inventory (last page)

[Lockdev]

Originally Posted by magellan

The latest home sales stats:

http://www.grar.com/wp-content/uploa...nuary-2016.pdf

Down to 2 months of inventory (last page)

That pretty much settles it for me.

5.6% increase in sales price.

13.1% increase in pending sale prices.

GR is a great city, but unfortunately, just priced itself out of the market.

Price increase has been too much, too fast. Don't want to be left holding the bag if the market slides.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

That pretty much settles it for me.

5.6% increase in sales price.

13.1% increase in pending sale prices.

GR is a great city, but unfortunately, just priced itself out of the market.

Price increase has been too much, too fast. Don't want to be left holding the bag if the market slides.

I don't believe that to be true but if you have to check it off your list, I totally get it.

The average "sale price" is still $183,000 which is well below the national average of $224,000. And that's home sale price, not average home value. There's over 350,000 housing units in the metro area and only about 10,000 or so homes change hands (sell) every year.

When the sale price goes above the national average, I think it will start to affect home sales volume.

[Lockdev]

Originally Posted by magellan

I don't believe that to be true but if you have to check it off your list, I totally get it.

The average "sale price" is still $183,000 which is well below the national average of $224,000. And that's home sale price, not average home value. There's over 350,000 housing units in the metro area and only about 10,000 or so homes change hands (sell) every year.

When the sale price goes above the national average, I think it will start to affect home sales volume.

I don't want to give up, but it's just like anything in business. If the price isn't right, it isn't right.

The average house price has been creeping up for the past 5 years. This past year has been insane.

Has there been a comparable increase in the average wage in GR?

If the answer is no to that last one, I feel that GR is moving in the wrong direction.

If the income percentage spent on a persons house is starting to creep up, it may put a damper on the local economy. More money spent on a mortgages equates to less money spent in the local economy.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

I don't want to give up, but it's just like anything in business. If the price isn't right, it isn't right.

The average house price has been creeping up for the past 5 years. This past year has been insane.

Has there been a comparable increase in the average wage in GR?

If the answer is no to that last one, I feel that GR is moving in the wrong direction.

If the income percentage spent on a persons house is starting to creep up, it may put a damper on the local economy. More money spent on a mortgages equates to less money spent in the local economy.

I don't know if you can compare the "average wage" to the average home sales price increase. If 500 or 1000 professionals move to the Grand Rapids metro area in a year, all making twice the "average wage," it's not really going to markedly change the average wage in the area for the other 550,000 people in the labor force. Or if 1000 recent college grads from GVSU land jobs in the area every year, and their wages are above the mean, they too won't move the needle that much. But they could all potentially afford the housing sales price increase.

Plus the percentage of people with college degrees has skyrocketed in the last 5 years, telling me there's an influx of college educated folks. It's pretty hard to increase that percentage of the existing population.

But you're right, if you're looking merely at it as an "investment," then most of the "profit" has been taken out of the market since the economy fully recovered a few years ago. If you bought 13 - 15 years ago in most of the good areas, you're looking pretty good right now. If you bought 7 or 8 years ago, you're not in as good of shape. If you bought 2 or 3 years ago, you're looking pretty good. Trying to time the housing market like it's the stock market though is not something I'd ever advise someone to do. And Grand Rapids has traditionally been a good "buy and hold" market, not a good short-term flippers market.

[hanna_house]

Well, we have lived here about a year and bought our first home in December. I had been monitoring the market for about a year and half and can say the prices are steadily increasing, but we happened to land an incredible deal. Our home is worth quite a bit more than we paid, so I feel grateful, especially if home prices continue to go up. I figured, no time like the present to invest in this growing region! Forbes just confirmed that.

[magellan]

Here ya go LockDev:

Hottest housing market in U.S. creates new rules for Michigan sellers, buyers | MLive.com

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

That pretty much settles it for me.

5.6% increase in sales price.

13.1% increase in pending sale prices.

GR is a great city, but unfortunately, just priced itself out of the market.

Price increase has been too much, too fast. Don't want to be left holding the bag if the market slides.

If your interesting in living somewhere the market doesn't really matter, unless you think its going to be 2007.
Chances are even if the bubble is a little inflated now, in 10 years, the house will be worth more than it is now. Most places have nearly fully recovered or even better from the 06/07 prices, so unless you want to flip, don't worry about it, home values don't matter if your not selling.