Should There Be A Death Tax? (legal, solutions, insurance, abortion)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is a serious subject not to be taken lightly. The thread will probably be heavily moderated.
A democracy is not like any other society. It cares for its people unto death The body of a pauper (one who dies without family or money) is disposed of by the state, and the taxpayers generally foot the bill. Most democratic states and countries are not heathen - meaning the disposition of a pauper's body is given proper consideration. It has been this way since the beginning of man I suppose. Death and burial customs is not something I ever desired to research. However a recent event prompted this thread and a question.
A state paid all expenses associated with a full burial service for an aborted fetus. I want to emphasize this was a natural process of the rejection of a fetus that had not moved for more than 36-hours. It was not a medically induced procedure. At 18-weeks the fetus was neither viable nor fully formed, nor able to survive outside the placenta.
I understand a state pays the funeral expenses associated with a stillborn child whose parents are very poor. Everyday somewhere in the world women naturally abort. It is not a medical event nor a political football. It is as much a natural expulsion as a sneeze is.
There is no polite way to write this, but quite frankly I resent paying tax money for funeral rites for a fetus. If the parents have the money fine. If the funeral home wants to donate a coffin and services; if the hospital*
wants to forgive associated expenses, and if the cemetery wants to donate the plot, rent the tent and pay for the services of the gravediggers to open and close the grave, I think it's wonderful. Don't expect my tax money to pay for it.
Based on this should we as a nation pay a death tax? In the case of babies should payment for a full funeral be limited to babies who are physically developed enough to survive outside mother's womb? I would vote a resounding YES for both.
The issue is whether we have respect for the RIGHT of the family in question to have THEIR views about the matter.
Assuming we do, and that willingness to have respect is not conditional on anything else, then the question reverts
back to the underlying issue: whether society at large has an obligation to help it's poor.
That in the same situation anyone else would prefer something else be done (cremation?) with the remains... is immaterial.
This doesn't mean society has a obligation to do anything elaborate or especially expensive. It doesn't.
But if we would have fed or housed or clothed or doctored them...
then we should bury them too and according to their custom.
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx
A state paid all expenses associated with a full burial service for an aborted fetus.
I want to emphasize this was a natural process of the rejection of a fetus that had not moved for more than 36-hours.
You're contradicting yourself there.
Earlier this week I was discussing abortion issues with someone (I'm pro-choice). In the course of that I looked up the Jewish view for some historical perspective I wanted to add. I came across the statement below. It's interesting and I think applies to the comment I offered above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewfaq.org
Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother's life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.
An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother.
Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence.
The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother's, because you cannot choose between one human life and another.
PS: the phrase "death tax" has an actual meaning... wrt estate taxes.
That make it a poor choice for a thread title about other subjects.
Last edited by MrRational; 05-28-2011 at 06:13 PM..
The hospital that I once worked for, if the parents didn't want the fetus, it could be put into the medical incinerator. A dead fetus could be considered at the same level as a removed liver, speen, an amputated leg or other organ. And it would be disposed of in the same manner if the parents didn't want it.
If the parents wanted it, the fetus would be sent to the funeral home of their choice. It would probably be easier for the funeral home to keep it in cold storage until the parents could pay, rather than do the paper work that would get the state to pay. Cremation, rather than burial, would be the cheapest.
A. I don't think I am contradicting myself. The natural aborting or expelling is when the body rejects the fetus, as differentiated from a medical abortion that causes the death of a otherwise healthy living being.
B. A fetus is not viable at 20 weeks. We would not have fed, housed or clothed this fetus as it was already deceased for several hours before the patient went to the ER. She did not deliver a baby. She did not deliver a living being. She delivered a dead fetus.
C. Talmud is interesting. It is in direct contrast to the Catholic practice which is to save the life of the child over that of the mother.
D. The title could probably be better written put but I am lost for what it might be. I am not convinced this would be an estate tax. Suggestions?*
E. This has nothing to do with FAMILY choice. If a family choses to bury a fetus the state should not be obligated to pay for a funeral for a non-being; nor should it interfere with the parents decision to pay themselves for said services.
From first breath to last: yes. From 30 weeks to last breath yes. Fetus: no. There are many instances where fully formed babies as small as 20 ounces live and mature. Ther are NO instances where a partially formed fetus has lived.
Maybe someday science and technology can create an artifical placenta where a fetus in danger can be saved; but not today. I think there is much to learn about the human body and the birth process first.
I thought some states do have a death tax? With that said, if the question as I'm understanding it is: Would I be willing to pay a little extra tax to go towards a poor family not being able to afford to bury / cremate their loved ones; fetus or full adult / child, etc. I honestly don't know.
With that said, if the question as I'm understanding it is: Would I be willing to pay a little extra tax to go towards a poor family not being able to afford to bury / cremate their loved ones; fetus or full adult / child, etc. I honestly don't know.
I would prefer to not have to think in these terms about it but...
The only level of objection that I would (do) have is from the possibility that this sort of generosity and indulgence toward one or a few grieving poor families... could be interpreted as giving the dead fetus any sort of legal standing.
I never considered a unformed fetus viable to the extent of legal standing. However, as we live in a litigious society, it seems all things may be possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
I would prefer to not have to think in these terms about it but...
The only level of objection that I would (do) have is from the possibility that this sort of generosity and indulgence toward one or a few grieving poor families... could be interpreted as giving the dead fetus any sort of legal standing.
I'm against most taxes. Having said that, I do not want the state taking my money to bury someone's baby. That someone who used their money to buy pleasure while I used my money to buy burial insurance. Why not have a fund that is funded by donations that could be used to only bury an indigent person, any indigent person, including a fetus. Heck, I might even donate money myself. The state finds a dead person who is broke and no relatives then our tax money is used to bury or cremate them. A fetus has a mother -- let the mother decide, and pay. The mother could make monthly payments to pay for the funeral just as easily as I can pay a Death Tax.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting perspective
