Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This has been a side issue in a few threads. My belief is that it is not possible unless you choose not to automate certain functions solely to give people something to do. In free enterprise/capitalism, profit is what drives business decisions. If you and your competitor both have the same number of employees required to get a job done and you can eliminate one of your employees by using automation and the machine that replaces them costs less, then you would do it. Because the cost is lower, it is impossible for it to produce other work in creating and maintaining the machines that would make up for the lost job. It is usually elimination by multiples; you might get machines in 10 locations to replace 10 workers and then only need one or two workers to maintain them and the largely automated manufacturing facility that produced the machine likely used a small fraction of someone's efforts to produce it as they are in this for a profit also.
I would prefer not to get into the ramifications of what it means if we accept that the number of jobs available will not be adequate to achieve anywhere near full employment in the future, but I can't control that. What I really hope to hear is explanations from those who think we can continue to have full employment in the future. How can that work?
War as a shovel ready job is one answer I wish I could disqualify. I will have to admit that it is one job I hope we never automate. I am far more concerned about machines following simple logic wreaking havoc than I am about self aware robots doing it to further their own kind.
Bumping this back up. I won't keep doing it but hoping one of the defenders of unbridled capitalism will explain their side. They are quick to respond in threads about social programs that employment and advancement are always available to everyone. I want to hear how the math works when jobs are eliminated because a machine can do it cheaper.
Is it possible to always have jobs for everyone???
I think it's possible.
Put a machine tax on all machinery = the amount of tax those men/women who lost their jobs (to that machine) would pay.
Make it illegal for corporations to ship jobs overseas....(to the tune of 1.5 million in 2011 alone).
In a healthy society there is a reasonable employment rate. Jobs for EVERYONE? That was not the case even in communist countries. But, the government should create an atmosphere of employment and low unemployment rate.
Unemployment creates instability for all (even for those who work). Aside from the economic aspect, people who are not busy will find ways to "entertain" themselves.
The above doesn't mean that nobody can ever be fired or everyone gets a CEOs salary. But the paycheck has to cover the basics.
We spend billions on unemployment. What about using some of this money to put people back to work? Many businesses are in need of employees but won't hire since wall street punishes those who hire. Hiring became a dirty word. That can be changed with different approach. Those unemployment checks can be used to reintroduce people to work in many companies.
On top of that, infrastructure projects can be funded by government (big government) and create jobs at the same time. Railways in the west and subways for many cities. Internet, fiber optics, airfields, highways.
But that is impractical in a country that urges employment cuts and is fiercely against public projects of any kind. Yet those ideas work quite in other places.
Is it possible to always have jobs for everyone???
I think it's possible.
Put a machine tax on all machinery = the amount of tax those men/women who lost their jobs (to that machine) would pay.
Make it illegal for corporations to ship jobs overseas....(to the tune of 1.5 million in 2011 alone).
So you are suggesting removing the incentive to automate? That's definitely putting a bridle on capitalism as is your protectionist suggestion. Not saying those won't work, just still hoping to hear from someone who believes that unfettered free enterprise can employ everyone.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,687 posts, read 81,491,960 times
Reputation: 57948
When you compare the number of jobs open and the number of people unemployed, it's really not that far apart. The problem is in matching them up.
The job openings may be pharmacists, optometrists, and microbiologists, or truck drivers, construction laborers or CNC operators, but the people looking for work might only have experience in retail or serving in a restaurant, or or recent college graduates with a degree in sociology.
That means the employers will have to hire from people already working elsewhere, and those out of work stay that way. Unless they move to where there are jobs they can qualify for.
People have to adapt to jobs and locations, retrain themselves for these skills, and have the grit to work their way up.
There aren't jobs for everyone. That wasn't even possible in communist countries. Not to mention that many jobs they created for the sake of jobs aren't much of anything.
Full employment means everyone who *wants* to work has a job, it may not be exactly up their street but never the less they are working. There will always be a subset of persons of working age that for various reasons will not take employment.
Even during the height of WWII production in the USA when places were often so begging for workers they did the previously unthinkable; hiring women and or minorities to fill positions that normally went to white males, some couldn't be tempted to work for money or penalty.
The United States like much of the Western economies has a problem; technological advances allow greater productivity with less workers. These advances are coming faster than ever before in history. Just look how far and fast the Internet/computers/devices have grown and changed in just under twenty years.
You would be very hard pressed to find any company still organized along those lines. Vast numbers of secretaries, clerks, telephone operators, typists, book keepers, archivists, and other support/ancillary staff are gone. When they got rid of the staff next in line were the supervisors (no secretarial staff you don't need someone to supervise). Once that was done lower and even middle management was ransacked. Everyone has gone "Lean" to the point places have nearly half (or less) staff than say twenty years ago but are still producing the same or even better.
Now those jobs may not have seemed much to some but they provided stable employment especially for women. Late as the 1980's a female or anyone else could graduate high school and armed with good to excellent typing, stenography and other office skills land a job. If you remained long enough there were promotions with raises. True no one ever got rich being an executive secretary but many managed.
Increasingly today the western economies are divided between two sorts of employment; highly skilled/educated (requiring at least a four year degree for entry), and low skill/wage. You also have "education creep", that is positions were once a high school diploma and some training would suffice for entry now require a four year college degree. Entire companies now only hire only those with Bachelor's degrees for even support staff such as gofers, assistants and so forth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
