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I suspect that a large number of bankrupcies are a result of those credit card checks that come in the mail with 0% interest for 12 months. They tell you in the brochure that comes with the check you should use it for a vacation or a big purchase. It's free money! Cash it now and pay (??) later!
We shred those checks as soon as they come in, all they are is an enticement to spend more on credit. That being said, I'd like to point to the bold portion above and say that "pay" is the operative word, not intentionally cash and go BK to avoid paying. As an aside, if found out she will definitely pay, both with her time and then restitution.
Nowhere on any brochure does it state that it's free money, anyone with more than a 5th grade education knows better than that and even if the costs of cashing the check (???) were double that's the debt you willingly take on.
During Thanksgiving one of my wife's sisters told us a story about her recent bankrupcy which caused lots of discussion.
It was all part of her long term plan to live the good life without breaking the law.
She built up her credit rating to a very high FICO score and got access to almost 100K in available credit. As the credit card convenience checks arrived in the mail she cashed them and used the proceeds of one check to pay the minimum balance of another. Eventually she cashed about $60K in convenience checks and put the money in the bank. Then she slowly pulled the money out of the bank and put the cash in safety deposit boxes and then eventually declared Chapter 7 Bankrupcy claiming no assets. The courts excused all her debts and she started fresh.
Now she is slowly pulling the money from those checks out of the bank safety deposit box for vacations, and other purchases using cash.
Rob a 7-11 store for $70 go to jail for a long time. Cash those checks and hide the money in a safety deposit box and life the high life on the cash and you don't get much of a penalty.
Is she wrong or a genius?
She has committed perjury and is a felon. When she lied to the bankruptcy judge about having no assets she became a felon. I hope she gets caught and does five years.
GL2
During Thanksgiving one of my wife's sisters told us a story about her recent bankrupcy which caused lots of discussion.
It was all part of her long term plan to live the good life without breaking the law.
She built up her credit rating to a very high FICO score and got access to almost 100K in available credit. As the credit card convenience checks arrived in the mail she cashed them and used the proceeds of one check to pay the minimum balance of another. Eventually she cashed about $60K in convenience checks and put the money in the bank. Then she slowly pulled the money out of the bank and put the cash in safety deposit boxes and then eventually declared Chapter 7 Bankrupcy claiming no assets. The courts excused all her debts and she started fresh.
Now she is slowly pulling the money from those checks out of the bank safety deposit box for vacations, and other purchases using cash.
Rob a 7-11 store for $70 go to jail for a long time. Cash those checks and hide the money in a safety deposit box and life the high life on the cash and you don't get much of a penalty.
Is she wrong or a genius?
She's a criminal.
Plan to spend future Thanksgivings visiting her in prison.
You're actually comparing a HOMELESS PERSON with this aunt who intentionally defrauded creditors, planned a felony act, and stole over $60,000??? Wow, some weird little world you live in...
It's not just banks that get stuck holding the bag (and all of us paying for those losses). It's ALL creditors. My father is a small business owner. When he started his business, he invested every bit of his savings into it. In the first year, one of his customers -a large business - declared bankruptcy, and reneged on what they owed him, which was about $12,000. He never got paid for that work.
If someone in my family was bragging about stealing $50 or a scarf from Neimans or something petty, of course I wouldn't report them - I would just publicly humiliate them in front of the other relatives with my scorn and then tell them to keep their mouth shut around me about that crap. But we're talking about a FELONY offense here.
I wonder if she's going to count that as income on her 2012 tax return? She's supposed to. She'll probably rack up tax evasion as well as these other felonies (she is guilt of several already at this point).
Not only would I report her - I would never allow her into my house, and I would not allow my children or grandchildren to be around her. Her behavior is not only illegal, it is absolutely disgusting. And I wouldn't care WHAT mealy mouthed relatives thought of it - or of me.
i am in agreement that NO WAY would i allow her around my kids, or even in my life. i certainly am not advocating fraud, and if you think I live in a weird world, why are you drawing comparisons between a bank and your father? the sort of thing YOU are talking about is that exact sort of think i mentioned as something worth getting knickertwisted over.
my point is in the realm of all possible crimes, i am not gonna spend alot of energy on a family member doing something like that. sorry. if they had caused bodiily harm to someone, murdered or raped someone, i would without QUESTION make sure they were set up and locked down ASAP. and if they did something to a child, i would probably kill em myself. saying her behavior is absolutely disgusting is a bit of overzealousness that personally i don't think drives a point home any better. it kinda sounds like hyperbole to me. i would rather reserve my moral outrage for something involving physical harm. i can't get all bunged up about a crime against a bank or the IRS the way i would if someone was kidnapped and tortured, sorry. if HER crime is absolutely disgusting, what would you say about a child abduction? if i got upset at every damn crime that happened in the world then i would be upset all the time.
my own father was a moonshiner in GA, and did three federal terms for it. he never hurt anyone, shot anyone, and he did it to feed us. there are lots of people on this forum who would have said "TURN HIM IN! LAWS! O, LAWS, BROKEN LAWS!"
if you want to call me an atavistic and amoral i don't care. in alot of people's books, in THIS library anyway, my father was nothing but a common criminal. in my book, he wasn't and he certainly wasn't stealing anything from anybody. perhaps this is why i do not get freaked out over trifles, or consider anyone who breaks a law "absolutely disgusting". my father was and is a good man.
too often the kind of people who would find this kind of thing disgusting (in your words) are the same people who will make excuses for things like iran-contra. like my boss with the shopping carts, he was one of those who believed that if the president does it he must know more than we do and we can't possibly judge him and blah blah blah. but, o, that shopping cart, the terrible thievery.
anyway, y'all enjoy gettin' upset. i kinda agree anyway with the other poster- i think this is someone doing a little phishing trying to figure out a play.
She's a thief, a loser, and a bottom feeding dirt bag.
As others said, I wouldn't want someone like that anywhere near me or anyone I cared about.
Eventually, she'll get what she deserves.
People who defend banks with an ardour usually reserved for larger entitlements to enable modes for a better equality strike me as sensible enough to demand a person who swindled $60K be deemed as amoral as a mega-corporate CEO. Do you all want retribution because she caved in to play mini-Big Boy for awhile or do you wish secretly that you had her temerity to strike out accordingly?
Look at the system: These financial octo-giants understand the world view vis-a-vis money, how wonderful it is to have an amount on hand that can allow someone to get stuff they otherwise could never afford. Home ownership & the consumerist economy depend on alot of folks borrowing to spend now what they would have later, after saving for months or years (if they could resist temptation). It's a foul game but developed places like America could never be what it is without this predatory loaning practice enshrined as a right to enable middle-classdom amongst so many poorish folk indebted for life with lacking incomes & a need for equity. Home improvement loans were all spent on new bathroom fixtures & paint? Sure...
So along comes this hypothetical woman steeped into a rhetorical argument who is identified as using the system as it is written & doing so properly as it operates, and suddenly she is a mega-thief on the scale of a Clyde-less Bonnie...? No. MANY people do exactly this sort of thing and it is silently condoned, since it purportedly aids the economy & keeps in check what could manifest into more crazy activity from those wanting more than a marketing department could ever dream of informing them of all that they gotta want.
For all those criticizing this fictive aunt lady, how about you villifying all those financial types who do the very same to you legally and with your happy obliging consent? Go on. But you won't since they enable your very own desires to live a life you can't really afford as you demand the entire country pay for somethings you don't even understand or even want, but advocate for since it is seen as a rightful lien levied on those more-moneyed that have what you obviously should have.
Morals are a funny that way seen thru the turning kaleidioscope. Robin Hood robbed from everyone and the only poor folk who benefitted were those who provided the goods & services the loot purchased, everyone else received higher 'self-esteem' thru vindication that they are people too.
Let's applaud Aunt Felonious N. Fraudulent for her astute business sense! Smaller potatoes need no badges, nor a cubicle-to-corner office life'style' to know equality.
i am in agreement that NO WAY would i allow her around my kids, or even in my life. i certainly am not advocating fraud, and if you think I live in a weird world, why are you drawing comparisons between a bank and your father? the sort of thing YOU are talking about is that exact sort of think i mentioned as something worth getting knickertwisted over.
my point is in the realm of all possible crimes, i am not gonna spend alot of energy on a family member doing something like that. sorry. if they had caused bodiily harm to someone, murdered or raped someone, i would without QUESTION make sure they were set up and locked down ASAP. and if they did something to a child, i would probably kill em myself. saying her behavior is absolutely disgusting is a bit of overzealousness that personally i don't think drives a point home any better. it kinda sounds like hyperbole to me. i would rather reserve my moral outrage for something involving physical harm. i can't get all bunged up about a crime against a bank or the IRS the way i would if someone was kidnapped and tortured, sorry. if HER crime is absolutely disgusting, what would you say about a child abduction? if i got upset at every damn crime that happened in the world then i would be upset all the time.
my own father was a moonshiner in GA, and did three federal terms for it. he never hurt anyone, shot anyone, and he did it to feed us. there are lots of people on this forum who would have said "TURN HIM IN! LAWS! O, LAWS, BROKEN LAWS!"
if you want to call me an atavistic and amoral i don't care. in alot of people's books, in THIS library anyway, my father was nothing but a common criminal. in my book, he wasn't and he certainly wasn't stealing anything from anybody. perhaps this is why i do not get freaked out over trifles, or consider anyone who breaks a law "absolutely disgusting". my father was and is a good man.
too often the kind of people who would find this kind of thing disgusting (in your words) are the same people who will make excuses for things like iran-contra. like my boss with the shopping carts, he was one of those who believed that if the president does it he must know more than we do and we can't possibly judge him and blah blah blah. but, o, that shopping cart, the terrible thievery.
anyway, y'all enjoy gettin' upset. i kinda agree anyway with the other poster- i think this is someone doing a little phishing trying to figure out a play.
I'm not upset. And I'm not calling you anything. I don't care what you think or do - just stating my own personal opinion and what I would do in this particular situation.
Wife's sister...yeah sure. I'm raising the BS flag on this one. OP either you have been told a crazy tale, or you are telling us one. You're posting history on other "relatives" is not a good indication that you are being truthful to us:
1.) One would not build up an excellent credit rating just to destroy it. An excellent credit rating means you have little revolving credit, good salary, stable job, etc. It means your are an upstanding citizen to begin with. It does not make sense, people that try this have bad credit to begin with. A leapord does not change his spots.
2.) In today's credit environment, no bank or combination of banks would give one person $100,000 in advanced loans. Maybe before 2009, maybe, but not today...no way. As soon as she cashed these checks your credit rating would go down. As soon as you applied for all this revolving credit even, which cannot happen overnight, your credit rating would go down.
3.) Bankruptcy has serious consequences - one being that the cost of everything going forward for those declaring bankruptcy increased. Try buying a house, a car, anything on credit - your interest rates will be higher, you will have to buy things like credit insurance.
4.) And as indicated - serious laws wwould have been broken in any regard with hiding assets. Anyone that would have declared bankruptcy would have been versed on this.
For the record anyways, assuming it's true - scammers, moochers, loafers - it doesn't matter how much they scam or steal, they are always broke, always looking for the next scam to get by. Doesn't matter how much money they think they scammed, it's like flushing money down the drain because they have no concept of managing money. They simply - never win. This $60k will last the scammer a couple months and she will find herself broke, bad credit, with all the costs associated with it, with abolutely no way to account or remember where the $60k went. Most likely she will be in jail. I guess that's justice, although all the rest of us have to pay for it.
With her credit now she will never be able to get much any more credit anytime soon. She ruined her self for about 12 years.
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