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The definition of Westerner seems to vary depending on who you ask. My friends from China always refer to me as a westerner. As I live in America, which is part of The West, I never questioned their definition of my identity.
But then I realized that many these friends from China don't consider other Asians living in America to be Westerners, even though some of them have been in the States for generations. This implies that to at least some people in the world, Westerner implies someone who has genetic ties to European peoples.
What do you think? What is the criteria for being a westerner to you all?
Is it being White? Is it believing in a form of government? Is it being Christian? Jewish? Secular? Are African Americans Westerners?
My own views on the subject are still being shaped. Maybe you all can enlighten me.
My belief is that a "westerner" is someone from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of Europe (except Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Serbia and Moldova). These are part of the "West" with a long tradition of liberal democracy and a certain set of "values." The culture, history, societies all have some similarities and are somehow connected making them all members of the "West." That is how I have always understood it.
Race? Since most "Western" countries are racially diverse or becoming more so...one does not have to be "white" to be a "Westerner." I think it is more of actual citizenship and political values, rather than race. So yes, I think belief in "western democracy" is a requirement for a society to be "western." However, not all "western democracies are really "western." Take India for example. It is a "western democracy," though its democracy originates from the UK, it is clearly not a country considered part of the "West." Hence, I believe that the system of government that originated in the "West" is a main characteristic of a "western" country, "non-western" countries may have established systems of liberal democracies as well.
Religion? I do not think that this matters so much. Especially with the increased secularization of these "western" nations. Jewish people have been living in "Western" nations for centuries. Hence, it is mostly considered a "Western" religion, especially since Christianity has its origins in the Jewish faith. Ever heard of the term "Judeo-Christian"? If you did, then you know what I mean. Now, like I said, Western societies are becoming more and more diverse. Thus, more and more "Western" citizens are of the Islamic, Hindu, Buddist, etc. faiths. They too are "Westerners," though their religion is usually considered more "Eastern." The people are usually, but not always at least here in the US, are seen as "westerners..." though their religion clearly does not have a "western" origin.
So one just has to be a member and assimilated into a group of nations with similar cultures, intertwined histories, long traditions of liberal democracies and a certain identity to be considered "western."
Really great question, OP! I've wondered this myself. Are Japan and Taiwan "Western", in that they're part of the industrialized, developed world and have democratic values?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler
Good thoughts. Especially on the Eastern European countries. They are White and Christian, yes, but their track record on Humanism is some of the worst the world has ever seen. They are hardly Western in that sense.
I think the question might be more: how would the OP's friends in China view E Europeans? I've wondered this myself, as well. Are Russians Westerners, Easterners, or a bit of both? I think most people from East Asia and South Asia would view East Europeans as Westerners. However, back before the fall of the USSR, some people in the "Eastern bloc" referred to their region as the "Orient". I would tend to say that Russians in some ways are more Eastern than Western (this is an old debate that goes back hundreds of years in Russia). But again, from the perspective of a Vietnamese, a Tibetan or a Mongol, Russians would be Westerners.
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^ Yes, as I pointed out in another thread, some Asians don't seem to be able to distinguish ancestry from culture.
Being a 'Westerner' is a state of mind...also, it's a continuum. Many Chinese people listen to American pop music, wear 'Western' style clothing (albeit made in China like most of us), enjoy McDonald's and Pizza Hut - does that make them Westerners too? I'm obviously mostly a Westerner, the only real Asian thing about me was my mum cooked Asian food at home (although plenty of 'Western' food as well) and I enjoy Asian food but so do many non-Asians. I don't follow an Eastern religion, don't practice traditional medicine, don't really have an Asian mindset or worldview or philosophy (although I'm trying to make mine more global).
Russians are NOT considered "westerners" by most sources. It is considered too different...perhaps "European" but almost never "Western." It is a society (such as their political culture) that is too different than the rest of Europe to be "western."
Japan, Taiwan and South Korea may be political allies of the "west," but their culture and identity is still a part of the "East." The fact that they are industrialized has nothing to do with anything.
Last edited by lentzr; 06-25-2012 at 07:43 PM..
Reason: misspelling
The definition of Westerner seems to vary depending on who you ask. My friends from China always refer to me as a westerner. As I live in America, which is part of The West, I never questioned their definition of my identity.
But then I realized that many these friends from China don't consider other Asians living in America to be Westerners, even though some of them have been in the States for generations. This implies that to at least some people in the world, Westerner implies someone who has genetic ties to European peoples.
What do you think? What is the criteria for being a westerner to you all?
Is it being White? Is it believing in a form of government? Is it being Christian? Jewish? Secular? Are African Americans Westerners?
My own views on the subject are still being shaped. Maybe you all can enlighten me.
Based on the Asian friends that I have, Asian countries have a tendency to think of your heritage as "where you are from". This is mostly true of the Japanese as a Japanese-American born in the U.S. will always be considered "from Japan" and Japanese by Japan no matter how many generations deep he/she is in the U.S. Essentially, your ethnicity is where you are from. Such as the same with ethnic Jews.
The term "Westerner" generally implies a certain cultural acceptance of social norms that tend to revolve around doing what is best for the individual (me, me, me, I want) and a little bit of hedonism. Essentially, individualism at the expense of the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lentzr
Russians are NOT considered "westerners" by most sources. It is considered too different...perhaps "European" but almost never "Western." It is a society (such as their political culture) that is too different than the rest of Europe to be "western."
Russia is considered a European country, so that would make them Eastern Europeans and the western side of Russia definitely fits that bill. But, the farther east you go, the more Russians, and the towns, begin to look Mongolian/Asian. There are accounts from American GIs who mention "Japanese" soldiers in Russian uniforms during WWII.
So what about Latin America? Are these countries and the people that reside in them considered Western? The majority of the people there are at least partially European descended and the laws of most of the countries definitely respect individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Also, I never really thought Western implied a state of economic development. Does a country have to be first world to be considered Western?
That is a good point about Latin America, but I disagree to a certain point. Yes, the countries of Latin America were colonized by Spain from the 1500s until the early 1800s. However, there is too much of a separate cultural identity from the rest of the "western" world for Latin America to be called "Western." The culture is actually a mixture of Spanish and Indigenous origins. The indigenous culture of Peru and Mexico go back thousands of years. In fact, many countries such as Guatemala, Bolivia and Paraguay even have indigenous majorities. So yes, there is a historical connection with the "west" through colonialism, the Spanish and Portuguese languages and Napoleanic Legal Codes. However, much of the remaining cultural characteristics are too "non-western" for Latin America to be lumped into with the rest of the "west." The history of authoritarian rule (though this is indeed changing fast in the region), indigenous culture prevalent throughout the region and some cultural aspects such as less individualism makes the region a little too different from Europe and the US to be considered "western."
That is a good point about Latin America, but I disagree to a certain point. Yes, the countries of Latin America were colonized by Spain from the 1500s until the early 1800s. However, there is too much of a separate cultural identity from the rest of the "western" world for Latin America to be called "Western." The culture is actually a mixture of Spanish and Indigenous origins. The indigenous culture of Peru and Mexico go back thousands of years. In fact, many countries such as Guatemala, Bolivia and Paraguay even have indigenous majorities. So yes, there is a historical connection with the "west" through colonialism, the Spanish and Portuguese languages and Napoleanic Legal Codes. However, much of the remaining cultural characteristics are too "non-western" for Latin America to be lumped into with the rest of the "west." The history of authoritarian rule (though this is indeed changing fast in the region), indigenous culture prevalent throughout the region and some cultural aspects such as less individualism makes the region a little too different from Europe and the US to be considered "western."
BUT: countries such as Uruguay and Argentina in Latin America have very little indigenous influence. Chile also is significantly less influenced by indigenous culture than, say, Ecuador or Peru. Argentinians especially celebrate how much "like Europe" they are, from architecture to appearance to culture. By some accounts, Argentina has more % white people than many countries in Europe.
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