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I was talking to some friends about the recent SCOTUS ruling, which says that denying gay couples the right to marry violates constitutional guarantees of equality. Now many on the other side of this ruling have said that this is a slippery slope and might lead to legalizing polygamy. While we all agreed with this SCOTUS ruling ... we could not come up with a rationale for keeping polygamy illegal.
So if I may pose the question: why is polygamy illegal? Why don't Mormons have the right to enter into multiple marriages? The answer is simple but not satisfactory in my opinion: polygamy is illegal and unprotected by the Constitution because the SCOTUS does not like it.
In an Op-Ed, Wendy Kaminer wrote: Over one hundred years ago, the Court held in Reynolds v. U.S. that polygamy was "an offence against society." The Reynolds decision upheld the criminal conviction of a man accused of taking a second wife in the belief that he had a religious duty to practice polygamy, a duty he would violate at risk of damnation. The Court compared polygamy to murders sanctified by religious belief, such as human sacrifice or the burning of women on their husbands’ funeral pyres.
This article goes on to say that in the year 2013, this court ruling is analogous to a ban on adultery. If it is not illegal for a married man to sleep with a co-worker or have a secret relationship with another girl ...then why is it illegal for consenting adults to enter into a polygamous relationship? I mean, it is one thing to ask for equal rights and benefits (like Social Security), but it is another thing to ask for polygamy to be decriminalized.
The author, Wendy Kaminer puts this brilliantly: Why is a practicing Mormon with two wives a criminal while Staten Island Congressman Vito Fosella, recently embarrassed by the discovery of his second family, is simply a punchline? What’s the moral and practical difference between a man who maintains multiple families without the approval of any church and a man who maintains multiple families with his church’s approval?
Note that the usual arguments against polygamy like: (1) change in male-female ratio, (2) domestic abuse (3) female coercion (4) child abuse; do not hold up at all after close examination.
So, why is polygamy illegal? Should it continue to be illegal?
Consenting adults should have the right to do as they as they please.
I see nothing inherently wrong with polygamy.
I do think it's creepy but creepiness is not a crime. I couldn't see myself participating in polygamy but I have no right to tell other consenting adults who do want a polygamous arrangement that they aren't allowed to do it. It's none of my business!
Of course. They are two fundamentally different things. Homosexual marriage and Heterosexual marriage both involve 2 people willingly consenting to marriage. I'm not convinced that polygamy always involves willing, non-threatened participants. Convince me and I'd be fine with it.
It's the same issue. The issue is that the government is telling consenting adults who they can or can not marry. It was not legal for gays to marry and it's not legal for multiple people to be married to each other.... Sounds like 2 separate groups of people with the same exact issue to me...
Why do they have to convince you so that you can be fine with what they choose to do and who they choose to marry? Even, for example, if say 1/3 of polygamist women where forced into it, why should the other 2/3 be made to be criminals? Since we're talking about fundamental differences, polygamy and the act of being forced to do something against your will are 2 fundamentally different things and should be treated accordingly.
There's a double standard here. Throughout history and even now, men and women are being forced into arranged marriages and are threatened with physical and/or social ramifications if they do not follow suit... Yet your not advocating making tradition marriages a crime because of it are you?
Last edited by DoniDanko; 07-09-2013 at 07:00 PM..
It's the same issue. The issue is that the government is telling consenting adults who they can or can not marry. It was not legal for gays to marry and it's not legal for multiple people to be married to each other.... Sounds like 2 separate groups of people with the same exact issue to me...
Why do they have to convince you so that you can be fine with what they choose to do and who they choose to marry? Even, for example, if say 1/3 of polygamist women where forced into it, why should the other 2/3 be made to be criminals? Since we're talking about fundamental differences, polygamy and the act of being forced to do something against your will are 2 fundamentally different things and should be treated accordingly.
There's a double standard here. Throughout history and even now, men and women are being forced into arranged marriages and are threatened with physical and/or social ramifications if they do not follow suit... Yet your not advocating making tradition marriages a crime because of it are you?
Since the government is in the business of protecting people from harm, coercing people into a harmful situation should be illegal. Historically and still today in many parts of the world, polygamy is and has been harmful to women. Therefore, it is illegal in the United States. Therefore, you have to CONVINCE me (the public) that women in polygamous relationships are not emotionally or physically harmed. No, really, convince us of this. Because most of what we've seen is that the girls in these marriages come out emotionally, economically and physically harmed, if they can escape at all.
Seriously, I don't care who marries who. Its just that the correlation between polygamy and social injustice has been so strong that the Supreme Court is like, no way.
Since the government is in the business of protecting people from harm, coercing people into a harmful situation should be illegal. Historically and still today in many parts of the world, polygamy is and has been harmful to women. Therefore, it is illegal in the United States. Therefore, you have to CONVINCE me (the public) that women in polygamous relationships are not emotionally or physically harmed. No, really, convince us of this. Because most of what we've seen is that the girls in these marriages come out emotionally, economically and physically harmed, if they can escape at all.
Seriously, I don't care who marries who. Its just that the correlation between polygamy and social injustice has been so strong that the Supreme Court is like, no way.
Being coerced into a harmful situation? Again, you either missed the point or refuse to acknowledge it. Plus you are extremely bias. Women are being "coerced" into abusive traditional relationships all the time, yet we do not try to ban ALL traditional relationships/marriages in an effort to stop the abuse from occurring. We simply focus on the abuse itself... You're rational is bias, it's a double standard, and it's irrational...
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Quote:
Historically and still today in many parts of the world, polygamy is and has been harmful to women. Therefore, it is illegal in the United States.
Again since you want America to base it's laws by what's happening in other counties/cultures... In many other parts of the world traditionally married women are "emotionally or physically harmed" more so than in the U.S., yet again, where's your rage against traditional marriage? Shouldn't we all ban together to protect woman from that too?
Lets not stop there.... Historically and still today in many parts of the world, sex is and has been harmful to women. Women are being raped and sexually assaulted which causes them to be emotionally or physically harmed. I say we nip that in the bud by making it illegal to have sex. I mean, what idiot would simply focus on the crime of rape itself when we could turn both bad and good people into criminals instead of just putting the focus on the bad ones... Very smart.
Last edited by DoniDanko; 07-09-2013 at 07:55 PM..
Reason: spelling/typos
Since the government is in the business of protecting people from harm, coercing people into a harmful situation should be illegal. Historically and still today in many parts of the world, polygamy is and has been harmful to women. Therefore, it is illegal in the United States. Therefore, you have to CONVINCE me (the public) that women in polygamous relationships are not emotionally or physically harmed. No, really, convince us of this. Because most of what we've seen is that the girls in these marriages come out emotionally, economically and physically harmed, if they can escape at all.
Seriously, I don't care who marries who. Its just that the correlation between polygamy and social injustice has been so strong that the Supreme Court is like, no way.
I do not want to reiterate what DoniDanko has already said, but, your so called correlation between polygamy and social injustice, is not a good enough reason for making it illegal. In fact it is one of the long held misperceptions regarding polygamy.
I am sure you will not dispute that many traditional one-man one-woman marriages have instances of violence and abuse. Similarly, I do not dispute that there might be many polygamous marriages with similar problems. But that does not give SCOTUS a reason to criminalize more than 2 adults who want to consent to a polygamous relationship.
I would like to lay emphasis on the word criminalize here ...
While we do not criminalize husbands having secret relationships and kids with their "girlfriends". We seem perfectly comfortable with criminalizing >2 adults who want to be in a polygamous relationship.
In a way, this has nothing to do with your "strong correlation to violence" argument ....
I don't think legalizing polygamy would be that big a deal as long as we adjust for the economic implications that go with marriage. For example: currently a surviving spouse may get SS payments based on the deceased spouses earnings. In the case of plural marriage, the benefit should be split between all the spouses. If you have 10 wives, they each get 1/10th of your benefits. After all, you wouldn't be paying in 10 times more than the guy with 1 wife, why should your beneficiaries get 10 times the benefits?
First I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly called Mormon because of our belief in the Book of Mormon along with the Bible.
Yes at one time my church practiced plural marriage or polygamy. They do not condone the practice anymore. Most men just can not handle it anyway and why would a wife be forced to deal with it.
On top of that, It is hard work to have a successful marriage with one wife. Why would anyone want to complicate that with multiple wives? It takes a lot of work to provide for a family. Here is the deal that many of these guys forget when they are saying that they are getting married because the Church taught it. Back when it was practiced the man still had to support his family. That is his job. If the Mormon chuch were to bring it back I would bet that few would do it because it would cost to much for one guy to support all those other familes.
I think polygamy should be legal.. consenting adults... who cares what consenting adults do? Why is it other peoples business?
I know several people in poly relationships and all appear to be happy, healthy and consenting.. They are in healthier relationships than many one man and one woman relationships I know.
Just because a few bad apples (<= 1%) that are splashed across the media front page shine a "bad" light on something why should anyone condemn it?
Make it legal and take away all these BS government benefits.. solve that problem.
I think originally it had to do with religion and that most believed that God met marriage to be between one man and one woman. It is a lot like prostitution in that it is based on moral beliefs. Legalize both, collect income tax from prostitution and child support from the guys with numerous kids they cannot support and just forget about morals since that would be more in line with the times we live in.
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