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Old 01-12-2014, 02:51 PM
 
3 posts, read 5,351 times
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I think we'd be worse off. But not disastrously. While religion has provided a motivation for some truly horrific wars (see the Thirty Years' War for a good example), secular ideologies can also provide an impetus for slaughter. For example, the Nazis were motivated not by religion, but by a racial ideology. And of course there would always be greed.

However, religion has also motivated a truly incredible amount of charity. Not that we wouldn't have charities, but we'd have a lot fewer of them. So I think we'd be a little worse off.

 
Old 01-12-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,345,962 times
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I have been reading a few of these posts from both sides of the fence. My thoughts on that are we all have the right to believe what ever we desire. I do believe in God and part of that is that He has allowed us the freedom to choose for ourselves. No need to force a beliefe on anyone or to get upset at another persons beliefe. For those that believe in God, a personage that we say is a loving and kind Father in Heaven that loves all people, perfect or full of sin. That loves Gay or Strait, rich or poor. God loves us all. He loves those that believe and those that do not believe. Saying that, if I believe in that kind of God then how can I tell someone that they are bad for not believing like I believe. How can I say to others that they are brain dead for not understanding that God exists. I can not say that or believe it. Our Heavenly Father would not do that Why should any of us act that way?
 
Old 01-12-2014, 02:58 PM
 
912 posts, read 1,132,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshakhad View Post
I think we'd be worse off. But not disastrously. While religion has provided a motivation for some truly horrific wars (see the Thirty Years' War for a good example), secular ideologies can also provide an impetus for slaughter. For example, the Nazis were motivated not by religion, but by a racial ideology. And of course there would always be greed.

However, religion has also motivated a truly incredible amount of charity. Not that we wouldn't have charities, but we'd have a lot fewer of them. So I think we'd be a little worse off.
Bad people will do bad things with or without religion, good people will do good things with or without religion. But only religion will cause good people to do bad things. The world would be better off without religion.

Some of the money catholics give their church, or catholic charities goes towards funding Christian governments in Africa that try exterminate non-christians, and undesirables such as homosexuals, in their country. The world would be better off if these religious charities didn't exist and the money went to non-religious charities.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 03:41 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,041,348 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshakhad View Post
I think we'd be worse off. But not disastrously. While religion has provided a motivation for some truly horrific wars (see the Thirty Years' War for a good example), secular ideologies can also provide an impetus for slaughter. For example, the Nazis were motivated not by religion, but by a racial ideology. And of course there would always be greed.

However, religion has also motivated a truly incredible amount of charity. Not that we wouldn't have charities, but we'd have a lot fewer of them. So I think we'd be a little worse off.
2 points:

1) The Nazi argument is frequently put forth as an example of atheistic war mongering. But here is the fallacy: Religious wars are fought directly for God in the minds of the warriors. Directly for religious reasons. Atheists have never fought a war to promulgate atheism. The Nazis slaughtered others for secular reasons, but not for atheistic reasons. They could care less about religion, they were power-crazed.

2) The Nazi argument really proves the point of a religious war: Irrationality and powerlust. Actually the Nazi war mongering and the Crusades were two sides of the same coin: A lust for power fed by irrational and savage impulses. One was for God, one was for Race, but both were similar forms of insanity and irrationality.

Can anyone see the similarities between Naziism and Sharia Law?
 
Old 01-12-2014, 06:20 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,068 posts, read 2,924,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Bad people will do bad things with or without religion, good people will do good things with or without religion. But only religion will cause good people to do bad things. The world would be better off without religion.

Some of the money catholics give their church, or catholic charities goes towards funding Christian governments in Africa that try exterminate non-christians, and undesirables such as homosexuals, in their country. The world would be better off if these religious charities didn't exist and the money went to non-religious charities.
False.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,068 posts, read 2,924,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
As often happens this conversation has become "The emperor's new clothes". If you don't know god you can't know god. Good comes from god, even after a country-devastating catastrophe which killed over 6000 people that of course no one attributes to god. Did those 6000 clearly witness his grace? I have to chuckle a bit when I see the only person in a development who didn't lose their home to a tornado say things like "god was really watching over me". I guess the 154 homeowners whose homes were leveled weren't on god's radar? People say god exists because how else would they explain the white light? Blah, blah, blah. Still absolutely no proof, just assumptions based on an assumption.

Your view of interpretation needs some work. It's very circular in that you say only those who understand and believe the texts can understand them.
Like I said, the survivors acknowledge that they live in an imperfect world where such catastrophes can happen, due to the sin of Adam and Eve. God had the perfect world for humanity in the Garden of Eden.

The survivors turn to God for guidance while they work on recovering from the disaster that impacted their communities.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 06:26 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,068 posts, read 2,924,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
There is no evidence, other than faith, to prove the existence of God. You can not challenge or question something as intangible and personal as faith with science. By the very definition of the words, science and faith are incompatible, and since the only evidence for god exists in faith, science and God are incompatible. Whether you choose to accept this or not, is up to you.
You can see the thousands of testimonies by people of all nations, you can look at the very functions and properties of the world around us, and you can even see the way the universe itself is designed. Those are few of the many forms of evidence for God.

Just because God exists in a form we mortal humans can't sense physically doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 06:29 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,068 posts, read 2,924,324 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinuzzo View Post
Here's my favorite definition of religion:

Religion is a set of rituals, beliefs, and traditions which provide simple and bite-sized answers to difficult, yet thought-provoking questions.

There are some questions out there that no one can answer- Why do humans exist? Why does the universe exist? Where did it come from? Does the universe extend outwards forever? What happens when we die? How do extremely complex phenomena occur in nature? A few people sit down and seek the true answers to these questions, even if there might be none. Most people, however, can't stand to have these questions unanswered, so they turn to religion, inhibiting the intellectual progress and development that might arise from true contemplation.
Religion doesn't inhibit anything, contrary to Atheist opinion. Those questions can still be answered even with a belief in God. A Theist can explore each and every one of those questions, and try and explore the quirky mechanisms that make up what is known as our universe.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 07:26 PM
 
2,962 posts, read 4,999,206 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
You can see the thousands of testimonies by people of all nations, you can look at the very functions and properties of the world around us, and you can even see the way the universe itself is designed. Those are few of the many forms of evidence for God.

Just because God exists in a form we mortal humans can't sense physically doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
I thought we were created in His image. Or is it Her image? And since you say science is providing proof of His or Her creations, why is He always white? I believe science leans towards man originating in Africa.
 
Old 01-12-2014, 07:30 PM
 
2,962 posts, read 4,999,206 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Religion doesn't inhibit anything, contrary to Atheist opinion. Those questions can still be answered even with a belief in God. A Theist can explore each and every one of those questions, and try and explore the quirky mechanisms that make up what is known as our universe.
It could be said that religion may have held man back for nearly a millenia. Even today some scientific experiments are held in contempt by the religious.
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